2016 Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 Review - Page 4 - Infiniti Q50 Forum
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post #31 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 10:47 AM
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Originally Posted by rpinto1077 View Post
I didn't know this. That is a real bummer knowing they are already at the transmission limit and that caused them to neuter the car.
Gonna take another long think about getting a used IS-F and maybe cross my fingers that I can manage driving it through Canadian winters with some good winter tires.
The engine has a "lower" torque value for the hp because of the cylinders' square design (bore is equal to stroke) that is favored by the Japanese. I believe the GT-R also features this design. European manufacturers tend to favor under square engines that have longer strokes. This makes for torquier engines for a given power while the Infiniti designs produce more power for a given torque.

One is not better than the other. No matter how much you blow in this engine it will probably always have a torque number under the hp number while the engine you see on a car like the C43 will probably always have an hp number under the torque.

This is my understanding of it at least.

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post #32 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 10:59 AM
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Originally Posted by GobinGiri View Post
Did you forget that the Q70's 5.6 makes 417 lb-ft of torque with the same transmission? They're probably saving that torque figure for a model higher than the Red Sport; maybe the Black Sport
I dyno'd my hybrid and while I was cautioned against converting wheel torque and whp to crank, I still feel fairly confident the car makes a little over 403 lb.-ft. The transmission most definitely can handle a good torque load.

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post #33 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 01:04 PM
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Originally Posted by hunter81 View Post
The engine has a "lower" torque value for the hp because of the cylinders' square design (bore is equal to stroke) that is favored by the Japanese. I believe the GT-R also features this design. European manufacturers tend to favor under square engines that have longer strokes. This makes for torquier engines for a given power while the Infiniti designs produce more power for a given torque.

One is not better than the other. No matter how much you blow in this engine it will probably always have a torque number under the hp number while the engine you see on a car like the C43 will probably always have an hp number under the torque.

This is my understanding of it at least.
The problem is, as stated previously, the Lincoln and Cadillac 3.0 turbo V6 engines have BOTH 400hp AND 400 lb ft of torque. So, shall we say, 800 units of power total compared to the Infiniti's 400hp+350lbft=750 units of power.
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post #34 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 04:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Drwilsc View Post
The problem is, as stated previously, the Lincoln and Cadillac 3.0 turbo V6 engines have BOTH 400hp AND 400 lb ft of torque. So, shall we say, 800 units of power total compared to the Infiniti's 400hp+350lbft=750 units of power.
Well, those are obviously going to be more powerful engines. If someone wants a Cadillac or a Lincoln, I say go for it. I have not heard any news yet about putting the new 400 hp engine in the ATS, however. As far as I know this new engine is going in the CT6.

My point is that it's by our own psychology that we to compare torque and hp numbers to each other in this way when torque is measured in lb.-ft due to the tendency for the numerical values to fall around each other. If we measured it in Nm that relationship would be lost some since Nm tends to always produce a number higher than what the hp is for an engine.

To me it's wrong to fault an engine for having torque that is lower than it's hp number because that apparently all gets back to the squaring of the bore and stroke.

If these new engines from Cadillac and Lincoln are the benchmark for you, then everything short of an M3 from Germany I guess would be out of the question for you including the new S4, the 340i, and the C450 AMG.

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Last edited by hunter81; 03-18-2016 at 05:01 PM.
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post #35 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-18-2016, 11:49 PM
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Well, those are obviously going to be more powerful engines. If someone wants a Cadillac or a Lincoln, I say go for it. I have not heard any news yet about putting the new 400 hp engine in the ATS, however. As far as I know this new engine is going in the CT6.

My point is that it's by our own psychology that we to compare torque and hp numbers to each other in this way when torque is measured in lb.-ft due to the tendency for the numerical values to fall around each other. If we measured it in Nm that relationship would be lost some since Nm tends to always produce a number higher than what the hp is for an engine.

To me it's wrong to fault an engine for having torque that is lower than it's hp number because that apparently all gets back to the squaring of the bore and stroke.

If these new engines from Cadillac and Lincoln are the benchmark for you, then everything short of an M3 from Germany I guess would be out of the question for you including the new S4, the 340i, and the C450 AMG.
One should also remember the Caddy's engine torque curve is not nearly so "flat" as that of the Q50 Red S...the Caddy doesn't hit max torque until 2500 RPM vs. 1600 for the Q, and drops off at 5K vs 5200. In fact it may be the Caddy's torque is actually lower at 1600 than that of the Q.

Every manufacturer has their reasons for their designs. One is not necessarily "better" than the other. They all have engineering tradeoffs.
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post #36 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-19-2016, 09:41 PM
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Read more about the 2016 Infiniti Q50 Red Sport 400 Review at AutoGuide.com.
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post #37 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 10:05 AM
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One should also remember the Caddy's engine torque curve is not nearly so "flat" as that of the Q50 Red S...the Caddy doesn't hit max torque until 2500 RPM vs. 1600 for the Q, and drops off at 5K vs 5200. In fact it may be the Caddy's torque is actually lower at 1600 than that of the Q.

Every manufacturer has their reasons for their designs. One is not necessarily "better" than the other. They all have engineering tradeoffs.
I remember reading that now. Yeah, I want to read up a little more on the Caddy and Lincoln engines. Like I said before, as far as I know, Cadillac doesn't have any immediate plans to replace the 3.6 in the ATS, which I thought was a little weird. The 3.7 in our cars was obviously ready for replacement, but I still got the impression it's a little better mill than the 3.6 that's in the Cadillac and shared with the twenty inch blades on the Impala.

Did you find an actual torque curve for the Cadillac engine somewhere?

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post #38 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 01:04 PM
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Did you find an actual torque curve for the Cadillac engine somewhere?
Not when I put up that post...but I just found one just now:

http://www.automobile-catalog.com/cu...turbo_awd.html

A quick conversion from nm to lb-ft shows the CT6 engine at around 313 lb-ft at 1600 RPM, which is where the Q50 Red S has already hit 350 lb-ft.

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post #39 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 02:15 PM
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I remember reading that now. Yeah, I want to read up a little more on the Caddy and Lincoln engines. Like I said before, as far as I know, Cadillac doesn't have any immediate plans to replace the 3.6 in the ATS, which I thought was a little weird. The 3.7 in our cars was obviously ready for replacement, but I still got the impression it's a little better mill than the 3.6 that's in the Cadillac and shared with the twenty inch blades on the Impala.

Did you find an actual torque curve for the Cadillac engine somewhere?
The ATS does need to update the engine to remain relevant. With all competitors going to forced induction, getting left behind would be a mistake for Cadillac. The 3.6 is a decent engine, but can't compete with the torque of, say the CT6 Engine, which produces 400lb-ft at 2500-5100 rpm. Put that engine in the ATS and it would be a monster.
Glad Infiniti has seen the writing on the wall and has a new engine now.
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post #40 of 41 (permalink) Old 03-21-2016, 03:37 PM
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Umm, isn't that what the ATS-V is for?



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