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post #71 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 02:43 PM
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Pretty sure Soho Motorsports does it that way on the AWD cars.?

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post #72 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by BigHeadClan View Post
Just reporting what the SM for 2016+ models had written/graphed for the torque splits, it's possible it's inaccurate due to poor translation me and Avedis were discussing this a few weeks back
ourselves.



That was the case for the G37x models to be sure but with the Q50 it appears they've revised the AWD programming so it engages in a more pro-active manner instead
of a re-active one. As I mentioned to John the SM seems to state other-wise.
You mean "Avedis and I", don't you?

It's difficult to find detailed information regarding Infiniti's ATTESA AWD system and what it specifically does or does not do. Take SNOW mode for example. The Owner's Manual simply states that SNOW mode changes the engine characteristics to aid driving on slippery roads. The SM states that SNOW mode changes the throttle angle characteristics to control torque and selects a different shift pattern. The TCM may change shift points but there's no information I can find that says the car starts out in a higher gear in SNOW mode.

There are unsubstantiated posts in other forums which say that in SNOW mode, the car starts in a 50/50 F/R split up to 12 mph and then migrates to RWD if no slippage is detected.

As far as what AWD does when in other modes from a standing start, it's still pretty vague what's really happening. There's information on the web that says ATTESA always starts at a 25/75 F/R split and migrates to a 0/100 F/R split if no slippage is detected.

The SM refers to a "Vehicle Starts Control" as an operation characteristic of the AWD system in the Transmission and Driveline section. It states:

Vehicle Starts Control

• At the start, torque distribution for front and rear wheels is fixed by electric control and stable start is achieved.
• Makes possible stable driving, with no wheel spin, on snowy roads or other slippery surfaces.




The question is: Is this normal operation in all driving modes or is it just in SNOW mode as it seems to allude to? I don't know. JohnInNH's statement about a short amount of rear wheel slip before AWD engages doesn't necessarily conflict with the information above. Even if there is a 25/75 F/R split on start, I could see how some initial rear wheel slip could happen before the bias shifts more to the front wheels.

So I'm not really sure what is suppose to happen given all the anecdotal information out there. If anyone has a link to technical information on Infiniti's ATTESA AWD system that goes into sufficient operational detail, I'd sure like to see it.
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post #73 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 07:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avedis53 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHeadClan View Post
Just reporting what the SM for 2016+ models had written/graphed for the torque splits, it's possible it's inaccurate due to poor translation me and Avedis were discussing this a few weeks back
ourselves.

That was the case for the G37x models to be sure but with the Q50 it appears they've revised the AWD programming so it engages in a more pro-active manner instead
of a re-active one. As I mentioned to John the SM seems to state other-wise.
You mean "Avedis and I", don't you?

It's difficult to find detailed information regarding Infiniti's ATTESA AWD system and what it specifically does or does not do. Take SNOW mode for example. The Owner's Manual simply states that SNOW mode changes the engine characteristics to aid driving on slippery roads. The SM states that SNOW mode changes the throttle angle characteristics to control torque and selects a different shift pattern. The TCM may change shift points but there's no information I can find that says the car starts out in a higher gear in SNOW mode.

There are unsubstantiated posts in other forums which say that in SNOW mode, the car starts in a 50/50 F/R split up to 12 mph and then migrates to RWD if no slippage is detected.

As far as what AWD does when in other modes from a standing start, it's still pretty vague what's really happening. There's information on the web that says ATTESA always starts at a 25/75 F/R split and migrates to a 0/100 F/R split if no slippage is detected.

The SM refers to a "Vehicle Starts Control" as an operation characteristic of the AWD system in the Transmission and Driveline section. It states:

Vehicle Starts Control

• At the start, torque distribution for front and rear wheels is fixed by electric control and stable start is achieved.
• Makes possible stable driving, with no wheel spin, on snowy roads or other slippery surfaces.




The question is: Is this normal operation in all driving modes or is it just in SNOW mode as it seems to allude to? I don't know. JohnInNH's statement about a short amount of rear wheel slip before AWD engages doesn't necessarily conflict with the information above. Even if there is a 25/75 F/R split on start, I could see how some initial rear wheel slip could happen before the bias shifts more to the front wheels.

So I'm not really sure what is suppose to happen given all the anecdotal information out there. If anyone has a link to technical information on Infiniti's ATTESA AWD system that goes into sufficient operational detail, I'd sure like to see it.
I actually had an infiniti test that asked a trick question like that, snow mode has nothing to do with awd, all it does is start you off in a higher gear, almost like a 4 Low, any more info past that I’m not sure of in terms of gear ratios etc. but I know it does not affect AWD, the snow is going to cause slippage even in minuscule amounts which will activate the AWD. You’re right about there not being enough info online however.
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post #74 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Phagan90 View Post
I actually had an infiniti test that asked a trick question like that, snow mode has nothing to do with awd, all it does is start you off in a higher gear, almost like a 4 Low, any more info past that I’m not sure of in terms of gear ratios etc. but I know it does not affect AWD, the snow is going to cause slippage even in minuscule amounts which will activate the AWD. You’re right about there not being enough info online however.
If that is correct then the Vehicle Starts Control applies to all driving modes for AWD vehicles and a certain amount of front wheel torque is applied when the vehicle starts moving from 0 mph and decreases as vehicle speed increases until 100% torque is shifted to the rear wheels. At least that's how I interpret the SM.

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post #75 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 08:34 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avedis53 View Post
You mean "Avedis and I", don't you?
Yes that. Also thank you for the chart, didn't have time to dig through my SM today trying to catch up on work after
a 32 hour strait shift. XD

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Originally Posted by Phagan90 View Post
I actually had an infiniti test that asked a trick question like that, snow mode has nothing to do with awd, all it does is start you off in a higher gear, almost like a 4 Low, any more info past that I’m not sure of in terms of gear ratios etc. but I know it does not affect AWD, the snow is going to cause slippage even in minuscule amounts which will activate the AWD. You’re right about there not being enough info online however.
Trick Question? That's a generous way to phrase something that contradicts the service manual. Hah

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post #76 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 09:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Phagan90 View Post
I actually had an infiniti test that asked a trick question like that, snow mode has nothing to do with awd, all it does is start you off in a higher gear, almost like a 4 Low, any more info past that I’m not sure of in terms of gear ratios etc. but I know it does not affect AWD, the snow is going to cause slippage even in minuscule amounts which will activate the AWD. You’re right about there not being enough info online however.
I'd like to see documentation regarding SNOW mode starting in a higher gear. The only consensus I see is that the throttle angle characteristics are changed so that it reduces engine response. Anything else is conjecture.

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post #77 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 10:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Avedis53 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Phagan90 View Post
I actually had an infiniti test that asked a trick question like that, snow mode has nothing to do with awd, all it does is start you off in a higher gear, almost like a 4 Low, any more info past that I’m not sure of in terms of gear ratios etc. but I know it does not affect AWD, the snow is going to cause slippage even in minuscule amounts which will activate the AWD. You’re right about there not being enough info online however.
I'd like to see documentation regarding SNOW mode starting in a higher gear. The only consensus I see is that the throttle angle characteristics are changed so that it reduces engine response. Anything else is conjecture.
Test it out yourself, put it in snow mode and start accelerating. It’s literally like starting off in second gear with a manual transmission, once you’re past a certain rpm range you accelerate fine but the first few build slowly, snow mode is only for start ups to build traction but it has nothing to do with the awd system

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post #78 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-26-2019, 10:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigHeadClan View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Avedis53 View Post
You mean "Avedis and I", don't you?
Yes that. Also thank you for the chart, didn't have time to dig through my SM today trying to catch up on work after
a 32 hour strait shift. XD

Quote:
Originally Posted by Phagan90 View Post
I actually had an infiniti test that asked a trick question like that, snow mode has nothing to do with awd, all it does is start you off in a higher gear, almost like a 4 Low, any more info past that I’m not sure of in terms of gear ratios etc. but I know it does not affect AWD, the snow is going to cause slippage even in minuscule amounts which will activate the AWD. You’re right about there not being enough info online however.
Trick Question? That's a generous way to phrase something that contradicts the service manual. Hah
Yes, trick question, the corporate trainer gives tests he creates and enjoys trick questions such as, “What power distribution does snow mode divert to wheels?” (Not same question just trying to give example) what goes against the manual and what it says?

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post #79 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 11:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Phagan90 View Post
Test it out yourself, put it in snow mode and start accelerating. It’s literally like starting off in second gear with a manual transmission, once you’re past a certain rpm range you accelerate fine but the first few build slowly, snow mode is only for start ups to build traction but it has nothing to do with the awd system
While I agree with you about SNOW mode and the AWD system, what you describe fits the SM's information about how SNOW mode actually operates to a T.

When you switch to SNOW mode, that tells the Chassis Control module which mode you are in. The CCM tells the ECM which drive mode you are in and the ECM uses a different mapping for the throttle position sensor to depower the vehicle so it feels like starting out in a higher gear.

I'll go with the SM's explanation of how SNOW mode operates unless someone can point me to documentation saying otherwise.
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post #80 of 85 (permalink) Old 06-27-2019, 12:07 PM
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@Avedis53 Just a FYI. I Just deleted my long post about no torque going to the front axle. (trying to minimize false info) While logging for Seb this AM I noticed in one place I turned around my front tire DID spin a little from a dead stop. So Absolutely you are correct. Some torque is transferred to the front at low speed while accelerating.
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