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Hi guys, this is my first time ever posting here. Just looking for general feedback/advice. Maybe you have experienced similar issues. I'm sorry for the long story, but more details are better than less. Please don't misconstrue my thread to be bashing of Infiniti, i LOVE my Q50, i'm devastated this has happened and I honestly don't know what else to do. I can't afford the $6k repair and this is my daily driver to get me to work and take my kids around, etc.

My 2014, Infiniti Q50 Hybrid Sport was purchased from Orange Coast Infiniti on or around March 28, 2017. At the time of purchases, the vehicle had 40,585 on the odometer reading. The VSC is valid for 36 months of 48,000 miles, whichever comes first. The vehicle has warranty remaining until 03/2020, or 88,585 miles. The vehicle currently has an odometer reading of approximately 74,000 miles. The vehicle was experiencing mechanical breakdown on or about 07/30/2019, so I took the vehicle to Orange Coast Infiniti in Westminster, CA, where the vehicle was purchased. I informed the Service Advisor, Eduardo that the preceding morning, approximately 2 hours prior to bringing in the vehicle, the dashboard lit up and the following error message came onto the dashboard, “Chassis Control System Error” – See Owner’s Manual, the same error message that came onto the dashboard two years prior in July of 2017. At that time, when the error light came on, the vehicle was undriveable. It was experiencing loss of movement and the gears would not shift. We turned around and drove it home to have it towed to Orange Coast Infiniti. The dealer diagnosed the vehicle and said it had a bad sensor and simply replaced the sensor. Although it sounded strange to me that a sensor could cause the vehicle to become undriveable and cause the car to not shift gears, I trusted the dealer was acting competently and assumed possession of my vehicle again. This time around, nearly two years later, the error message went away as I was taking the vehicle to the dealer on 07/31/19. I informed Eduardo and sent him a picture of the error message I’d taken before the light went away. I informed him it was the same error message and gave him the info surrounding the former repair. It took OC Infiniti about a week and a half to diagnose the vehicle, according to Eduardo, the technicians were having difficulty doing so. He informed me Friday, August 2, 2019, that an Infiniti Engineer would need to come down and assist in diagnosing the vehicle. The vehicle has been diagnosed by an Infiniti Engineer and they have determined that the "clutch" in the transmission needs replacement. The vehicle is a 2014 Infiniti Q50 Hybrid Sport with a 7-speed automatic transmission, as classified in the Infiniti Owners Manual. The "clutch disk" as stated by the dealer is now not covered under warranty, although the dealer confirmed in writing that it would be, because according to the Vehicle Service Contract, Extended Warranty coverage, "clutch disk (Manual transmission)", is NOT covered. However, the governing language here is that the vehicle is NOT a manual transmission vehicle, so the exclusion to what is covered DOES NOT apply here. On 08/09/2019, upon speaking with a Service Advisor, he forwarded me to an Infiniti Technician who attempted to explain to me that the vehicle technically has both types of transmission, manual and automatic. To which I firmly disagree. It is classified as a 7-speed automatic, according to Infiniti's OWN manuals, and a manual transmission was NOT offered in any 2014 Q50 lineups for that manufacturers year. For this very reason, the contract language is clear, the clutch disk for automatic transmissions IS covered, but NOT for manual transmissions, to which my vehicle is not. Further, on 08/12/2019 at approximately 4:30 p.m., I spoke with Ray Picazo, Service Manager to receive an update on the status of my warranty claim reconsideration. He explained that NESNA would not be reconsidering their determination to decline my claim. He further said that he reached out to Infiniti Corporate and they offered to cover the parts but not the labor. The dealership, Orange Coast Infiniti has not offered to do anything. Ray further explained that had the vehicle been under factory warranty, the part would be covered. So if it is covered under factory warranty, how is it an excluded item under the VSC? The same exclusions carry-over from factory warranty to the VSC which further contradicts the denial of my claim. On 08/13/2019, I contacted Infiniti Consumer Affairs and was advised that they can not override the decision of NESNA, but may offer financial assistance in getting the vehicle repairs completed. The advisor contacted OC Infiniti. I was informed by another agent at Infiniti Consumer Affairs that the dealership offer would be the best offer and to instead contact the Better Business Bureau, Automotive Decision at 800-955-5100 before taking legal action to avoid further costs.
 

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Hi guys, this is my first time ever posting here. Just looking for general feedback/advice. Maybe you have experienced similar issues. I'm sorry for the long story, but more details are better than less. Please don't misconstrue my thread to be bashing of Infiniti, i LOVE my Q50, i'm devastated this has happened and I honestly don't know what else to do. I can't afford the $6k repair and this is my daily driver to get me to work and take my kids around, etc.

My 2014, Infiniti Q50 Hybrid Sport was purchased from Orange Coast Infiniti on or around March 28, 2017. At the time of purchases, the vehicle had 40,585 on the odometer reading. The VSC is valid for 36 months of 48,000 miles, whichever comes first. The vehicle has warranty remaining until 03/2020, or 88,585 miles. The vehicle currently has an odometer reading of approximately 74,000 miles. The vehicle was experiencing mechanical breakdown on or about 07/30/2019, so I took the vehicle to Orange Coast Infiniti in Westminster, CA, where the vehicle was purchased. I informed the Service Advisor, Eduardo that the preceding morning, approximately 2 hours prior to bringing in the vehicle, the dashboard lit up and the following error message came onto the dashboard, “Chassis Control System Error” – See Owner’s Manual, the same error message that came onto the dashboard two years prior in July of 2017. At that time, when the error light came on, the vehicle was undriveable. It was experiencing loss of movement and the gears would not shift. We turned around and drove it home to have it towed to Orange Coast Infiniti. The dealer diagnosed the vehicle and said it had a bad sensor and simply replaced the sensor. Although it sounded strange to me that a sensor could cause the vehicle to become undriveable and cause the car to not shift gears, I trusted the dealer was acting competently and assumed possession of my vehicle again. This time around, nearly two years later, the error message went away as I was taking the vehicle to the dealer on 07/31/19. I informed Eduardo and sent him a picture of the error message I’d taken before the light went away. I informed him it was the same error message and gave him the info surrounding the former repair. It took OC Infiniti about a week and a half to diagnose the vehicle, according to Eduardo, the technicians were having difficulty doing so. He informed me Friday, August 2, 2019, that an Infiniti Engineer would need to come down and assist in diagnosing the vehicle. The vehicle has been diagnosed by an Infiniti Engineer and they have determined that the "clutch" in the transmission needs replacement. The vehicle is a 2014 Infiniti Q50 Hybrid Sport with a 7-speed automatic transmission, as classified in the Infiniti Owners Manual. The "clutch disk" as stated by the dealer is now not covered under warranty, although the dealer confirmed in writing that it would be, because according to the Vehicle Service Contract, Extended Warranty coverage, "clutch disk (Manual transmission)", is NOT covered. However, the governing language here is that the vehicle is NOT a manual transmission vehicle, so the exclusion to what is covered DOES NOT apply here. On 08/09/2019, upon speaking with a Service Advisor, he forwarded me to an Infiniti Technician who attempted to explain to me that the vehicle technically has both types of transmission, manual and automatic. To which I firmly disagree. It is classified as a 7-speed automatic, according to Infiniti's OWN manuals, and a manual transmission was NOT offered in any 2014 Q50 lineups for that manufacturers year. For this very reason, the contract language is clear, the clutch disk for automatic transmissions IS covered, but NOT for manual transmissions, to which my vehicle is not. Further, on 08/12/2019 at approximately 4:30 p.m., I spoke with Ray Picazo, Service Manager to receive an update on the status of my warranty claim reconsideration. He explained that NESNA would not be reconsidering their determination to decline my claim. He further said that he reached out to Infiniti Corporate and they offered to cover the parts but not the labor. The dealership, Orange Coast Infiniti has not offered to do anything. Ray further explained that had the vehicle been under factory warranty, the part would be covered. So if it is covered under factory warranty, how is it an excluded item under the VSC? The same exclusions carry-over from factory warranty to the VSC which further contradicts the denial of my claim. On 08/13/2019, I contacted Infiniti Consumer Affairs and was advised that they can not override the decision of NESNA, but may offer financial assistance in getting the vehicle repairs completed. The advisor contacted OC Infiniti. I was informed by another agent at Infiniti Consumer Affairs that the dealership offer would be the best offer and to instead contact the Better Business Bureau, Automotive Decision at 800-955-5100 before taking legal action to avoid further costs.
So technically the transmission included in the Q50 Hybrid is actually a dual-clutch transmission (it has 2 clutches), however both are automatically controlled. One is for typical operation and the other is to engage/disengage the engine so it can coast in low-load scenarios.

As far as I'm aware in no documentation for any model of the Q50's in which the transmission ever refereed too it as a manual and nearly every piece of warranty documentation I've ever seen from Infiniti
regarding the transmission cover all trims under the power-train Section regardless if manual or automatic. Perhaps @Avedis53 can chime in here as he has spent far more time in the service manual
than any of us, granted the SM is also poorly translate guidelines rather than a formal piece of documentation....

Still the fact Infiniti Corporate is willing to cover the parts under warranty means that they acknowledge the issue but likely went over their budgeted time to diagnose/repair the issue.
Typically the dealership needs to eat that cost as it's their responsibility that repairs take place in a reasonable time, to me it sounds like the dealership is trying to get out of the bill.

100% contact the BBBA for advice and maybe reach out to your lawyer if you have one and have him prepare a letter of intent. More often than not this will get dealerships to
resolve the issue rather then have to deal with legal fees.
 

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The Better Business Bureau is a useless org. Don’t waste your time. Go straight to a lawyer to first write a firm letter, but expect to go much further.
It's pretty hit and miss admittedly, which is why I suggested a letter in addition to BBB as well. Sometimes dealerships are just filled with people looking to cheat
someone out of their money, it's for good reason I do all of my own car work now and don't have dealerships do my service. Hah
 

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Thank you for your reply! Yes, i understand it is a dual-clutch transmission, but it's recognized as automatic transmission. I think the best remedy here is to have my lawyer draft the dealership a nice letter. From the research I gathered, this particular dealership aka Promenade Imports, LLC has been sued several times in Orange County, CA alone in the last five years for Breach of Contract/Warranty. I am hoping the letter resolves the issue, I just want my car back, fully repaired and operable. I feel like there was negligence there in 2017 from the first time this issue presented itself. Thank you for your feedback :)
 

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Thank you for your reply! Yes, i understand it is a dual-clutch transmission, but it's recognized as automatic transmission. I think the best remedy here is to have my lawyer draft the dealership a nice letter. From the research I gathered, this particular dealership aka Promenade Imports, LLC has been sued several times in Orange County, CA alone in the last five years for Breach of Contract/Warranty. I am hoping the letter resolves the issue, I just want my car back, fully repaired and operable. I feel like there was negligence there in 2017 from the first time this issue presented itself. Thank you for your feedback :)

Not a problem, I also checked out some history on the dealership and the past year seems to have many complaints against the sales and upper management
in particular.

Let us know how they end up responding though!
 

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I am expecting a phone call from the Service Director shortly, but i'm confident the outcome will remain the same. Needless to say, the dealership has lost my business and that of my friends/family for life. I am not going to just walk away, they need to make things right. I will find a way to hold them accountable. Thanks again!
 

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The hybrid is an automatic transmission which does not have a torque converter. Where the torque converter normally lives in a normal transmission, there is an electric motor and a dry clutch. The dry clutch is there to engage and disengage the ICE from the transmission which is done via the ECU/TCU automatically. Its not like a manual transmission where the driver/operator has full control of the transmission.

In say this, the Q50 is a fully automatic transmission, regardless of how many clutches there are. Unless Infiniti states specifically that the dry clutch is wear item that needs to be periodically inspected, service and replace at xxx km/miles interval.
 

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If the car is under warranty, then they should fix it with no cost to you.

The Infiniti limited warranty states that the powertrain warranty is 72 months or 70,000 miles, whichever comes first.

With regards to the transmission and transaxle, the warranty covers:

Case and all internal parts, torque converter, and converter housing, automatic transmission control module, transfer case and all internal parts, seals and gaskets, clutch cover and housing, A/T cooler and electronic transmission controls.

Seems fairly explanatory to me that your problem should be covered and the dealership is trying to rip you off. You'll most likely need to get your lawyer involved to convince them to do you right if they're stonewalling you like that.
 

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The hybrid has two clutches. A dry plate clutch attached to the flywheel that connects the ICE to the electric motor. Then a wet clutch inside of the transmission to connect the electric motor to the transmission which serves two purposes. One of which is to smooth shifting.

It is inaccurate to call it a "dual clutch" transmission as the two clutches are quite different and serve separate purposes. It is not at all similar to what we know as a DCT automated manual.

BTW, which of the two clutches went bad?
 

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It is inaccurate to call it a "dual clutch" transmission as the two clutches are quite different and serve separate purposes. It is not at all similar to what we know as a DCT automated manual.

BTW, which of the two clutches went bad?
I'd not call it a dual clutch either, simply what Nissan internal documentation refers to the unit as. Likely thanks to marketing trying to push that narrative.
 

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@priscilla marie,

As others have said on here there are two clutches. One is a dry clutch between the electric motor and the engine to allow decoupling of the engine during EV driving. It's a good design because from what I remember there were cars where the engine could not be decoupled which means even during EV driving energy is lost turning a crankshaft and moving pistons in an engine that is not supplying power at the time. I think the GS450h is this way, but it's been so long I can't really remember.

The other clutch is the wet clutch which lies between the transmission and the rear axle. This clutch's purpose is to provide smoothness from what I remember. (I used to remember more about the Hybrid, but it's been almost 2 years since I had mine and even more time that I had studied all this info.)

I did come across a nice photo on the Japanese site showing a good diagram. Even though it's written in Japanese, just look for the "1" and "2" and those are Clutch 1 (dry clutch) and Clutch 2 (wet clutch.)



Regarding your issue I think you are absolutely correct in your argument that the car is not a manual transmission car and it's not a "manual automatic" or whatever other absurd position they were trying to argue. There is no rule that an automatic car, especially one with an unconventional hybrid powertrain like the Q50 Hybrid, has to have a torque converter and cannot have a clutch. I can understand Infiniti's position that they would not want to cover clutches in manual transmission cars because the clutch is something that can very easily and very quickly be worn out by abuse or misuse such as people who drive with a foot resting on the clutch pedal because they don't know any better. You can burn out a clutch very fast either abusing it or misusing it. I wouldn't be surprised if pretty much every automaker would not warranty the clutches of manual transmissions for this reason.

With the Q50 Hybrid, this is not the case. It's an automatic transmission and both clutches are completely under the control of the car's computer. While I think you could burn out the wet clutch trying to brake torque the car (holding the brake while pressing the gas), very few people are going to do this. Since the clutches are operated by the car with no human involvement they should be covered. If you have any more conversations with this dealer, another dealer, or Infiniti I think you should argue that it's not possible to abuse the clutches on this car like what can be done in a manual car and that's why the clutch needs to be covered.

As far as dealing with the dealer/Infiniti, I'd make your case and if Infiniti still doesn't want to cover it I would just take them to small claims court for the cost to fix it. I wouldn't even mess with a lawyer. I don't know how your state is, but in Texas you can file suit in small claims for up to $5,000. It's like a $65 filing fee and it's very informal. People don't normally use lawyers in small claims and you do not realistically need to be a lawyer to represent yourself in small claims. The whole point of small claims is to allow people to deal with smaller disputes without having to lawyer up. I have never dealt with trying to go after such a large company before, but I have a feeling you have a good chance of getting their cooperation if you send a well written demand letter stating your argument intelligently and clearly. I can even send you demand letters I have sent over the years for our company to use as a template. I have a hard time seeing Nissan/Infiniti corporate wanting to waste time on it if they know you plan to take them to small claims. It's easier for them to just cover your clutch and get rid of you once they no you aren't going to just accept your "no" believing you have no recourse.

Before going that far though I'd try to see if you can still resolve it diplomatically or even see if you have better luck with another dealership. Another dealer that may be more receptive to your side may have more luck trying to make your case with Infiniti. Also, if you do have to go the small claims route this will allow you to get another quote for repairs so you have a good amount to go after them. If it ends up being $6,000 which is higher than $5,000 I think many states use for their small claims cutoff, you would still probably be ahead going this route because a lawyer may easily cost $1,000 or more to do it for you.

Hopefully this comes to a good resolution for everyone. I like Infiniti as a company so it's not like I want to run around encouraging small claims suits, but at the same time I know if I were in your position I would feel the same way about their response as you do. Put the pressure on if you have no other option.
 

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Before going that far though I'd try to see if you can still resolve it diplomatically or even see if you have better luck with another dealership. Another dealer that may be more receptive to your side may have more luck trying to make your case with Infiniti. Also, if you do have to go the small claims route this will allow you to get another quote for repairs so you have a good amount to go after them. If it ends up being $6,000 which is higher than $5,000 I think many states use for their small claims cutoff, you would still probably be ahead going this route because a lawyer may easily cost $1,000 or more to do it for you.

Hopefully this comes to a good resolution for everyone. I like Infiniti as a company so it's not like I want to run around encouraging small claims suits, but at the same time I know if I were in your position I would feel the same way about their response as you do. Put the pressure on if you have no other option.
Small claims is certainly an idea.

Although I think most lawyers fee to write a letter of intent would be rather small $1000 seems very excessive but I've
never had a letter done myself (And I live in Canada) so that probably isn't the case in the US.

Most of the people I know in the US who've had letters sent knew their lawyers personally and they'd wave the fee.
 

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Small claims is certainly an idea.

Although I think most lawyers fee to write a letter of intent would be rather small $1000 seems very excessive but I've
never had a letter done myself (And I live in Canada) so that probably isn't the case in the US.

Most of the people I know in the US who've had letters sent knew their lawyers personally and they'd wave the fee.
Oh, a letter of intent/demand letter wouldn't cost that much, but I was also considering actual legal representation as well in the cost. For an amount that small (or close to $5,000) small claims is definitely the efficient way to go.
 

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Oh, a letter of intent/demand letter wouldn't cost that much, but I was also considering actual legal representation as well in the cost. For an amount that small (or close to $5,000) small claims is definitely the efficient way to go.
Hah I was going to walk over to my legal department and start asking how I can get in on this nonsense if that was the case.
Honestly a letter of intent is likely all that would be required to get movement from a dealership.

But it's worth keeping in mind this is failed transmission and the car is unusable at this time. So while he could sue to have cost of repairs completed
the OP is technically out of a car at this point which costs upwards of 30K.

So depending on how the issue is approached it could go either way.
 

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The air conditioning and cooling fans have clutches, too. Does that make it a manual? Of course not. Total nonsense.
 

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Hah I was going to walk over to my legal department and start asking how I can get in on this nonsense if that was the case.
Honestly a letter of intent is likely all that would be required to get movement from a dealership.

But it's worth keeping in mind this is failed transmission and the car is unusable at this time. So while he could sue to have cost of repairs completed
the OP is technically out of a car at this point which costs upwards of 30K.

So depending on how the issue is approached it could go either way.
I think the entity that would need to be addressed would be corporate and not the dealer since corporate is the one making the call to not cover it and are the ones responsible for backing up the warranty including covering the dealer's labor costs on warranty work. Good point about the unusable car. I mean, realistically hopefully it doesn't come to even have to go as far as a demand letter once the intentions are clear that the OP doesn't plan to just accept the denial.
 

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I think the entity that would need to be addressed would be corporate and not the dealer since corporate is the one making the call to not cover it and are the ones responsible for backing up the warranty including covering the dealer's labor costs on warranty work. Good point about the unusable car. I mean, realistically hopefully it doesn't come to even have to go as far as a demand letter once the intentions are clear that the OP doesn't plan to just accept the denial.
As I read it sounded like corporate had no issues with warrantying the part itself, it was the cost of labor to install the transmission where
things fell apart as I understood it. Infiniti Corp does cover the cost of parts/labor but the time to complete installs and diagnostics are based on
Nissan/Infiniti internal estimates.

And sometimes they are very unfair to a dealership and they can't realistically complete jobs in the time required and they loose money and
refuse to perform repairs.

But oddities aside I too hope it gets sorted with just a letter.
 

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As I read it sounded like corporate had no issues with warrantying the part itself, it was the cost of labor to install the transmission where
things fell apart as I understood it. Infiniti Corp does cover the cost of parts/labor but the time to complete installs and diagnostics are based on
Nissan/Infiniti internal estimates.

And sometimes they are very unfair to a dealership and they can't realistically complete jobs in the time required and they loose money and
refuse to perform repairs.

But oddities aside I too hope it gets sorted with just a letter.

@BigHeadClan,

That makes sense. I was told by my service advisor once who I had a pretty good relationship with that the techs were paid less for warranty work and so they weren't crazy about performing it. At the time I got the impression it was like a lower rate, but it makes sense that they'd set time limits for it.
 

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I had a clutch, bearings, and slave cylinder replaced on my 2008 G37 coupe and it was just shy of $2,000. I'm guessing the higher price for the Hybrid, although $6,000 sounds a bit high, would be due to needing a hybrid tech to work on it. It looks like that orange cable can decouple from the transmission's traction motor (the electrical motor) which would make sense so you don't have to pull the engine out too, but you still have to have a qualified tech to work on a hybrid car since they can kill people who don't know what they are doing.
 
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