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Discussion Starter #1
I have a 2016 Q50S AWD non-DAS. I have had it since new and have about 50k miles on it now. The first winter, with about 10k miles on it I swapped some new Nokian snow tires onto the factory wheels. By the end of the winter season, with less than 10k miles on the tires, the inner shoulders were basically gone. The factory runflats (Dunlop) didn't exhibit much wear at all because of how hard the rubber compound is. Now at 50k on the car (maybe 30-35k miles on the runflats), I can see the inner shoulder on the Dunlops is worn more than the rest of the tire (most of the tread is gone). This is not a camber wear, as it is only the inner 2-3 inches of tread at most that is worn this way. The rest of the tread actually looks very good. I checked the toe with some Longacre toe plates, and have under 1/16" total toe in at the rear and just under 1/16" total toe out at the front. For all intents, this is basically 0* toe, and probably within the error spec a dealer will align the car.
I have searched for others with similar problems and seem to see that others are also experiencing similar wear characteristics. My concern, as I'm shopping for new summer tires for next year, is that I'm going to spend $$$ on some nice Michelin PS4S or Continental ECS and with their softer compound (lower treadwear rating) I'm going to kill the inner shoulders on them in very short time. If this is a widespread problem, I may say F* it and dump the car for something else. I don't feel like spending $1k/yr on tires, and I don't want to run the runflats anymore. They're terrible, and I squeezed as much life out of them as I could bear, and now one has a bubble in the sidewall.
I guess my question is... Is this a systemic problem that will not go away because of the suspension design, no matter how many times the dealer aligns it? Is this a dynamic toe issue? Are cars that are driven very easily, without hard cornering also seeing this issue? I like spirited driving and thought this car was a good compromise of comfort and sport, but if it destroys good tires at the rate I expect, it is not worth it.

Let me know what your experience is.
 

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You should plan to replace your tires every 30K...you will not get good wear out of tires for the Q50. The RF are crap but the Michelin's and Conti's are superior in every way and well worth the cost as they are far cheaper than replacing them with more crap RF tires. I bought a set of 4 Michelin Pilot Sport AS 3+ mounted, balanced and road hazard for under $1100 out the door. Best rated all-season high-performance tire on the market. The Conti DWS06 are solid as well and a few dollars cheaper if cost is a big concern.
 

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Is this a systemic problem that will not go away because of the suspension design, no matter how many times the dealer aligns it? Is this a dynamic toe issue? Are cars that are driven very easily, without hard cornering also seeing this issue? I like spirited driving and thought this car was a good compromise of comfort and sport, but if it destroys good tires at the rate I expect, it is not worth it.
Systemic problem? No, I don't think so. This is honestly the first post I've seen on an issue like this.

My question back to you is have you actually taken the vehicle in for an alignment? It would seem that would be your best approach and show them the inner tire wear.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Systemic problem? No, I don't think so. This is honestly the first post I've seen on an issue like this.

My question back to you is have you actually taken the vehicle in for an alignment? It would seem that would be your best approach and show them the inner tire wear.
I have not taken it in for an alignment, but then again I perform my own race car alignments and am likely more capable than the techs at the dealer (at least my local dealer). They have exhibited some serious lack of skill over time and I basically only allow them to change my oil now. I have plenty of experience with the PS4S and Conti ECS, as well as numerous other "performance" summer tires. Trust me, RF's will not be going back on the car, and with dedicated winter tires and a winter beater, I won't even be going to All-Seasons. I just hate to think that I'm only going to get a year (10-15k) out of a set of $1k+ tires. I haven't done that poorly on tire wear ever, even during my early twenties when I raced on my daily driven tires and drove extremely hard with too much slip angle everywhere and still managed 12-15k miles on a set with extreme toe out and camber up front... but those were much less expensive tires due to the size, and it was a much lighter car by about 1,100 lbs. I know I'm not the only one with this tire wear as I have found a number of posts from others with the same type of wear, I'm trying to gauge how many others are having the same issue, and if it is DAS vs non-DAS, AWD vs RWD. My alignment is near perfect, and has been since day one. Wear is even left to right, and probably a little more on front than rear. Now my driving style could be a possible factor as I tend to load up the car on exit ramps with some threshold braking and just at the limit of the RF's, but this doesn't apply to every ramp nor every day, but even still, the wear characteristics point to a toe related problem. Now loading the car up and actually using the suspension, rather than just cornering flat at low speeds, could be the determining factor and it is a dynamic change under load that is causing a big enough toe change to cause the excessive wear. I'm not going to change my driving style, as that is what I live for. I will just be disappointed if the suspension geometry on this car is so bad that it causes that much of a change under moderate cornering loads. It will only be worse with better tires. I don't launch hard or peel out, so this can only possibly be caused by cornering loads. My brother in law is running 20x10 with Conti ECS with 275s all around on his RWD model, lowered on Tanabe springs and has yet to get enough miles to tell, but appears his wear so far isn't bad like mine... but he also drives like a grandma MOST of the time.
I guess I'm just trying to see what variables are the likely cause.
 

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So here's my experience. On Dunlop (summer) RFT, it was evenly wearing at 8k. Replaced it with ps4s and it lasted ~26k (could have gone over 30k if i wanted to). I noticed the front tires wear on the outer shoulder was a bit more than the rest of tread. I thought it was only due to the tires being over 2yrs old and beaten up. I replaced it with contis ECS and immediately noticed the same wear in just under 500 miles. Brought it in to infiniti for alignment but the tech showed me everything was still in spec. He then decided to adjust the toe just a tiny bit and that fixed the issue.
 

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@tkvtec

As others have said check the alignment, a good sized pot-hole could put you out of spec and is causing excessive wear, add in more aggressive winter driving plus some warmer days and a hard-core winter tires like Nokain or Blizzak which wear really, really quick and your looking at new tires very frequently.

What model specifically did you buy, whats your weather like in your state?? I also assume you've been rotating your tires as well?

I only bring those points up because excessive tire-wear is not a common complaint in the forums, I'm surprised you'd consider dropping the car all together though
a toe-adjustment shouldn't be that expensive.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
So here's my experience. On Dunlop (summer) RFT, it was evenly wearing at 8k. Replaced it with ps4s and it lasted ~26k (could have gone over 30k if i wanted to). I noticed the front tires wear on the outer shoulder was a bit more than the rest of tread. I thought it was only due to the tires being over 2yrs old and beaten up. I replaced it with contis ECS and immediately noticed the same wear in just under 500 miles. Brought it in to infiniti for alignment but the tech showed me everything was still in spec. He then decided to adjust the toe just a tiny bit and that fixed the issue.
Thanks for your input. It is possible a tiny adjustment in toe could resolve this, though like you suggest everything is in spec and near ideal. I'll give the toe adjustment a shot and make it dead zero and see if that makes any difference. Normally 1/16" total toe won't exhibit this kind of wear. Good to know about your experience with the PS4S and ECS
 

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@tkvtec

As others have said check the alignment, a good sized pot-hole could put you out of spec and is causing excessive wear, add in more aggressive winter driving plus some warmer days and a hard-core winter tires like Nokain or Blizzak which wear really, really quick and your looking at new tires very frequently.

What model specifically did you buy, whats your weather like in your state?? I also assume you've been rotating your tires as well?

I only bring those points up because excessive tire-wear is not a common complaint in the forums, I'm surprised you'd consider dropping the car all together though
a toe-adjustment shouldn't be that expensive.
I checked the alignment Saturday, and everything is as described. Well within spec, and near zero toe. I'll string it up and make everything zero. (less than 1/16" change total) I'm in CT, and tend not to drive aggressively on the winters. It is cold between now and March, and we'll get a few snowstorms sprinkled through the year. . I'm running Hakka R2 specifically. I have another set of Hakka R2 from my WRX that are in perfect condition and have many more miles on them. I have never experienced a winter tire or any tire for that matter wear like I've seen on the Q50. I've managed to drive for the last 20 years without seeing this kind of wear on any other tires aside from a car running 2.5*+ Camber and 3/16"+ toe out (got lazy and didn't correct it).
I'll get the alignment adjusted in the next day or so and report back with results over time, though I've never seen such a small change in toe make that big of difference.
 

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I checked the alignment Saturday, and everything is as described. Well within spec, and near zero toe. I'll string it up and make everything zero. (less than 1/16" change total) I'm in CT, and tend not to drive aggressively on the winters. It is cold between now and March, and we'll get a few snowstorms sprinkled through the year. . I'm running Hakka R2 specifically. I have another set of Hakka R2 from my WRX that are in perfect condition and have many more miles on them. I have never experienced a winter tire or any tire for that matter wear like I've seen on the Q50. I've managed to drive for the last 20 years without seeing this kind of wear on any other tires aside from a car running 2.5*+ Camber and 3/16"+ toe out (got lazy and didn't correct it).
I'll get the alignment adjusted in the next day or so and report back with results over time, though I've never seen such a small change in toe make that big of difference.
Hmmm well the Q50 is a much heavier car than the WRX but still what you reported seems excessive, mind reporting back after you make the adjustment?
 

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I also had (heavy) inner shoulder wear on my summer tires, but after 26.5k miles – for me that's okay so far relative to the distance, but I really wondered about that strange wear. My car is lowered and on 20", alignment etc. all done...
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I also had (heavy) inner shoulder wear on my summer tires, but after 26.5k miles – for me that's okay so far relative to the distance, but I really wondered about that strange wear. My car is lowered and on 20", alignment etc. all done...
Would you describe your driving as aggressive, spirited, or generally relaxed? What summer tires were you running?
 

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Depending on my mood, my driving is relaxed with spirited/aggressive sections. Car is driven most of the time at higher speeds on German highways, not that much on winding country roads or in city traffic.

The tires were Conti PremiumContact 6 (245/35 on 20"/8.5") ...
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Depending on my mood, my driving is between relaxed with spirited/aggressive sections. Car is driven most of the time at higher speeds on German highways, not that much on winding country roads or in city traffic.

The tires were Conti PremiumContact 6 (245/35 to 20 "/8.5") ...
Thanks for that. My driving is also largely highway, and knowing that a good 280 treadwear tire lasted that long is promising.
 

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tkvtec, did you check the alignment yourself or at a reputable shop? Unless you have an alignment rack that is properly calibrated, your measurements are suspect.

I'd venture to guess that your toe and camber are more off than you can tell.

To confirm other posts here, this is not a known Q50 problem as far as inner tire wear. It happens from excessive negative camber and toe.

I was running -2.4 up front in my WRX. In my Q50, a -2.2 caused excessive inner tire wear. In the WRX, it was pretty much even.
 

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Discussion Starter #16
This is an example of my 30-35k mile Dunlop Run Flats. As you can see the wear across 90% of the tread is minimal and even, but the inner inch and a half or so is nearly flat and worn on a sharp angle from the rest of the tread.
89830
 

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Here is the Hakka R2 with about 15k miles. The same sharp wear pattern on the inner shoulder and has completely worn through the siped tread in this area circumferentially.
89831
 

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Discussion Starter #18
tkvtec, did you check the alignment yourself or at a reputable shop? Unless you have an alignment rack that is properly calibrated, your measurements are suspect.

I'd venture to guess that your toe and camber are more off than you can tell.

To confirm other posts here, this is not a known Q50 problem as far as inner tire wear. It happens from excessive negative camber and toe.

I was running -2.4 up front in my WRX. In my Q50, a -2.2 caused excessive inner tire wear. In the WRX, it was pretty much even.
Yes, I checked it myself... as I have done on all the cars I've competed in for the past decade. I will give you that a laser rack will give you a fancy printout and look all nice, but my measurements on a stock car with rubber suspension bushings are equally repeatable and accurate, to within about .04* using a precision ruler and even better when using a digital caliper per wheel with a string alignment. Even measurements from Toe plates are very close, the only thing the toe plates don't show are thrust angle issues. If the car is tracking straight and the steering wheel is straight and the toe isn't really out of sorts, I typically don't bother to string it up. Look up Smart Strings... https://www.turnology.com/features/easy-accurate-inexpensive-do-it-yourself-vehicle-alignment/
Having just measured my camber with a Longacre Racing Camber Gauge, I have -.8 degrees Left and Right at the Front and -1.5 degrees Left and Right at the Rear. I'll get the individual wheel toe specs once I string it up.
 

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Knowing how notoriously cheap most businesses are, I would think if using a string and a rule (I would have said ruler, but I don't want selzini to correct me) was accurate and repeatable that shops would have their techs using these instead of alignment racks that probably cost a couple hundred thousand dollars. And yes, I have seen this technique used in motorsports, but if someone tried to use this on my street car I would probably take my business elsewhere.
 

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Knowing how notoriously cheap most businesses are, I would think if using a string and a rule (I would have said ruler, but I don't want selzini to correct me) was accurate and repeatable that shops would have their techs using these instead of alignment racks that probably cost a couple hundred thousand dollars. And yes, I have seen this technique used in motorsports, but if someone tried to use this on my street car I would probably take my business elsewhere.
What about something like this? DSC00255.jpeg
 
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