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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I have been a Toyota/ Lexus guy for over 20+ years.
Most recently I have owned the 2nd and 3rd gen GS.
I always looked at Toyota/Lexus as being the premium Japanese automaker. They offer the best All Around car. Sure you will not get the Nissan/Infiniti performance or Honda Ecomomy but you had the fusion of both.
My GS was my favorite car and is an awesome all around car. Not spectacular performance or extreme luxury but great across the board.

My only requirement for my next car was it has to be a Luxary Hybrid (due to my long daily commute, 50+ miles).

Recently I felt my only option was the 2014 ES300h (35 combined TESTED, you can NEVER get close to what they state). I would of given up hope of performance (200 combined HP, 8-ish 0-60).
The most current Lexus design is an improvement but leaves me yearning for more aggressive line and less than inspiring interior.
I have no clue what the Germans are doing and Desiel is not a hybrid (in my eyes)

Well I just bought my wife the QX60 and am very impressed. Aggressive styling (badass front grill), quite, adequated luxury and nice amenities. My wife loves her heated steering wheel and All around cameras (Gee... Women...)

I was floored when I saw the numbers on the Q50 Hybrid. 0-60 5 seconds, 350-ish HP and 32-ish MPG.

So this got me thinking... WTF Lexus?
You have pioneered the Hybrid technology and all of a sudden you lost your mojo... No meaningful improvement is efficiency and still sacrificing power for economy. The ES has like a 2.5L, Atkinson tune engine with a CVT transmission. Can we say uninspiring performance. I will pay a $10,000 premium over the non-hybrid model.

Needless to say, Infiniti will get my business. I know I will be buying a car that is not as refined as a Lexus (please lets not debate this, Lexus still has the advantage... They are extremely quiet and solid feeling cars) but I will get economy, performance, technology and styling.

Thanks for listening to my rant.... Looking forward resurrecting my lead foot and buying the Q50s hybrid.
 

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You can sometimes get 10k off on the gs450h depending on where you live. Granted that's still more expensive than the q50 hybrid after discounts

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Ye haggle a bit on a Q.
It sounds like you can get close to invoice.

There is a gas mileage thread floating around the forum to.
So you can see what kind of MPG people are getting on the Hybrid.

My only gripe so far about the Hybrid is the regenerative braking could use some more refinement.

Otherwise it's a blast to drive.
And you get on demand torque at any RPM from the electric motor when you punch it so you have no flat spots in the RPM range when you floor it.
 

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They do have the GS450H, but no F-Sport in the USA. A base GS450H is about $60k. Load it up can go over $70K.
A fully loaded Q50S Hybrid + Deluxe Tech is under $55K.
In term of price and performance, the Q50S Hybrid is the best bang for the buck. The GS450H is definitely more luxury and refined.
If they ever make a GS450H + F-Sport under $60K, I'll trade in my Q50S Hybrid in a heartbeat.

There is the Lexus GS hybrid that is comparable in power and mpg.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
They do have the GS450H, but no F-Sport in the USA. A base GS450H is about $60k. Load it up can go over $70K.
A fully loaded Q50S Hybrid + Deluxe Tech is under $55K.
In term of price and performance, the Q50S Hybrid is the best bang for the buck. The GS450H is definitely more luxury and refined.
If they ever make a GS450H + F-Sport under $60K, I'll trade in my Q50S Hybrid in a heartbeat.
Agreed and the MPG is not the same as the Q50.
 

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They do have the GS450H, but no F-Sport in the USA. A base GS450H is about $60k. Load it up can go over $70K.
A fully loaded Q50S Hybrid + Deluxe Tech is under $55K.
In term of price and performance, the Q50S Hybrid is the best bang for the buck. The GS450H is definitely more luxury and refined.
If they ever make a GS450H + F-Sport under $60K, I'll trade in my Q50S Hybrid in a heartbeat.
Infiniti did hit a sweet spot in market demand by offering a Q50 hybrid with a sport package, AWD, or both. No one else seems to have that broad a hybrid offering, corrrect me if I'm wrong. I'm sure that the Germans will address this eventually, as they seem to have dozens of permutations for every model.
 

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I agree about Lexus vs. Infiniti.

My wife has had RX's for her last 4-5 cars. Every life cycle Lexus seems to have had the guys in white coats with clipboards trying to squeeze every penny out of the cost of the vehicles. The result is a cheapening if the usually great interior. Leather covered cardboard door inserts, reducing the number of charging outlets, removing the backlight from the home link buttons. Just small decisions that add up to making the car feel less like a Lexus. Don't get me wrong - it's still nice but these small things definitely add up and have made us want to look elsewhere for her next car.

Infiniti, on the other hand, prides itself on adding in tech and safety (albeit in-touch and DAS are both rough around the edges) that are small things that draw you to them. I wish my wife had the around view monitor and I wish Infinti had a smaller SUV that had all of the tech, ICC, forward collision, etc. for her. The EX is too low and NO back seat - hopefully a refresh one of these years will take care of those things.

In addition, without options, the Lexus can have comparable payments on a lease but it's virtually impossible to find a loaded up Lexus in our area - they stock very generic models based on demand. Any extra safety features, ICC, etc, come at a super premium and usually minimal to no incentives. Infiniti's stocking these and producing a bunch of fully loaded versions for dealer lots makes them more accessible and I feel the cost differential is more reasonable.

With all of that being said - the GS does have one my favorite dashes in the segment. Credit where credit is due. I just think the lack of readily available safety tech, the huge payment increases when you do get one you've had to order, and the cost cutting in obvious areas that affect use and/or enjoyment of the car (I.e. Removing things that were in a previous model like backlit buttons and accessory outlets) just soured me a bit on Lexus.

It's not that it's a terrible brand just disappointing lately. And I do want my wife to have at least some of the tech safety features I have on my Infiniti - both for her and when I need to drive her car on longer trips.

Looking at the new Merc GLA that comes out next year as a replacement but think it will be too low for her like the EX and X1. Wouldn't have even considered one of the other brands if Lexus hadn't changed my opinion of their build focus.

I didn't even mind paying a premium for the loaded Q50. Infiniti had traditionally been a cost/value leader with safety tech to make the push easier. The Q is defiantly not as inexpensive as the G was but I feel it's worth that premium. Love the tech and safety features and they went upscale instead if cost cutting - and it shows. Rough release with some if this stuff but pretty happy so far. I think you will be as well.

Good luck!
 

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Lexus GS is nice. I love the interior. Just out of my price range.

The Q50S hybrid AWD with all the options was $48k for me. A good $7k off the $56k
 

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Lexus does make quiet vehicles. But the ES is such a snore-fest. I'm loving my Q50 Hybrid. Fun to drive all the time. Even if I'm trying to squeeze EV miles from it by driving like a grandpa.
 

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I agree about Lexus vs. Infiniti.
My wife has had RX's for her last 4-5 cars. Every life cycle Lexus seems to have had the guys in white coats with clipboards trying to squeeze every penny out of the cost of the vehicles. The result is a cheapening if the usually great interior. Leather covered cardboard door inserts, reducing the number of charging outlets, removing the backlight from the home link buttons. Just small decisions that add up to making the car feel less like a Lexus. Don't get me wrong - it's still nice but these small things definitely add up and have made us want to look elsewhere for her next car.
I have noticed this too. Lexus still has some of the industry's best interiors, despite the recent cost-cutting measures- that's just how far ahead they were 10-15 years ago. The LS430 interior is a triumph to this day, and probably the pinnacle for that model as well as the brand. I remember the 2GS interior fondly (a big fan of the exterior, too!).







Car and driver said it was "built like a jewel box." At the time, nothing in that class came close. Had Infiniti continued the J30, perhaps it would have been upgraded accordingly, as it had a wonderful interior. But the Germans were not putting out the wonderful interiors of today, and Infiniti had resorted to rebadging and really chepened their interiors to lower price points (QX40, I30, 2nd-gen Q45, etc). That generation of GS had almost comically thick materials and construction solidity- seriously reminiscent of 80s/ early 90s Mercs. In many ways, the Q50 interior approaches this type of quality, while being obviously better in others due to 15 years of advancement in materials science/construction.

In recent years, Lexus has backed off a bit, and what you say about the door cards is the most apparent downgrade to me. Infiniti doors have been gorgeous in design, materials, and build lately. They almost seem a class above in each model. The other issue to my eyes and hands with recent Lexus cars is the hard plastic creep. This is not to be blown out of proportion as the interiors are still great and their dashboard designs second to none, but I'm seeing more and more Camry/Accord-grade plastics on lower door sections and, in the IS, even portions of the dash. None of this makes it feel as cheap as the 2003 G35 that I have (which does, at least, have awesome leather:D), but it is not on-par with their peak-era materials. This is perhaps most apparent on one of their most expensive models- the LX. Where the Infiniti QX56 has all soft, simulated and real leathers, the LX occasionally goes hard and brittle. It can be excused as overal build and execution is amazing, and MB and Audi do this in their big SUVs as well. But it shows that the L and Infiniti are heading in opposite directions just a little bit when it comes to interiors.

I do have to mention that I'm impressed by the door panel detail of the RC350. It's a step in the right direction, if not a full leap back to the late 90s/early 00s heyday.

 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I have noticed this too. Lexus still has some of the industry's best interiors, despite the recent cost-cutting measures- that's just how far ahead they were 10-15 years ago. The LS430 interior is a triumph to this day, and probably the pinnacle for that model as well as the brand. I remember the 2GS interior fondly (a big fan of the exterior, too!).
Maybe it's just me but owning the 2nd and third gen GS, the interior is somewhat predictable. I eventually thought I would end up in an LS... But recently I sat in one and it reminded me of a glorified GS. It did not have its own identity. Those pictures do bring back memories.
I have a GS300 Platinum Series with a Nakamichi sound system and it was phenomenal!
 

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I do feel that the refresh of the LS interior a couple of years back greatly improved it, by virtue of a more contemporary dashboard that is both more sporty and more luxorious. The old one had nice materials- if perhaps a half-step below the LS430's high mark- but the new one really ups the ante with its stitched portions and aluminum trim. Being a classical Infiniti fan, I also appreciate the analog clock.:D Sure, the design is based on the 4GS, but that's what the luxury leaders always do- same sausage, different lengths- and there's no question that it's a quality upgrade over the already strong present-day GS.




While looking for those nice old GS pics that I posted, I stumbled upon a Bimmer forum comparison of the GS and 5-series. Oh, brother- did that thing kill some brain cells. It was full of "Lexus = Camry with more squishy plastics!" anti-intellectualism. Unbelieavable. And I though some Lexus fans were bad from time to time. They're not in the same league as these BMW guys.:eek:
 

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Speaking of waiting for new models, anyone hear when the FX is getting updated? I nearly bought one 2 years ago but the ride was too bouncy for my tastes, it felt unrefined and skittish. I imagine they'll use what they've learned from the Q50's excellent suspension and apply it across the board.
 

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The last thing I read about the QX70 was that a redesign is due for 2016. That would make the current FX/QX70 the longest-running model in the brand's history, if I'm not mistaken. It's been on the market since model-year 2009. Since the M came 2 years later, it looks like the current design for the Q70 is going to be with us until 2018 or so. At that point, though, we should be getting some pretty far-out, contemporary, elegant designs, if the Q50 is just the starting point.
 

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We can't get a QX50 and QX70 redesign soon enough. WTF? EX/QX50 hasn't changed since it was released. Most neglected car in the lineup. That's not quite as bad as waiting just as long to revise the G - biggest selling car in the lineup had to wait from 2007 until now to get refreshed!!! Come on Infiniti, new designs sell really, really well. Get with the program.
 

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I do believe that the huge delays we are facing with other redesigns are symptomatic of their management shake-up. Ghosn basically stopped caring about Infiniti, and admitted as much, but offered to keep the brand around for a new President who is more passionate about making Infiniti viable and profitable. Everything has changed in the past 3 years, and the Q50 doesn't even embody the entirety of their new vision.

So, I'd say be patient. They are rebuilding from the ground up, and I would not be surprised to hear that every project that was in-progress when De Nysschen took over has been heavily altered and delayed a few years. We should see a deluge of new models released from 2016-2020.
 

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I don't understand their focus on Q30 instead of QX50/EX. Compact luxury SUV is a faster growing segment than sedan. Infiniti is totally missing out in this field.
 
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