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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
I come from a tuning world where every hp is a fight and a compromise of something. I spent 5 years getting a Mazdaspeed6 2.3L MZR up to a reliable 400bhp from a stock 275. I'm talking mid turbo (2867), water/meth injection, pretty much every hard part, a ton of tuning, FMIC, etc. I learned to tune semi-professionally and got a good understanding of turbo engine tuning. It was really a tight dance of boost, timing, and fueling and the 2.3L was very finicky. It was a very reliable car and I think I put 75k on this configuration before I sold it. This testing and tuning familiarized me well with dynos, virtual dyno, and doing pulls/logs.

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So, I took my 3.0T Lux Q50 and installed the JB4 + fueling wires + EWG wires. Maybe it took me 2 hours to carefully install and route everything. I first built a custom car configuration in Virtual Dyno for the Q50 (pay no attention to frontal area, it uses the drag coefficient).

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I then decided to do a stock map baseline 3rd gear pull followed by a JB4 Map 2 pull. #1, my mind is blown. #2, the ECU handled the additional boost perfectly. #3, it shaved almost three seconds off of 30-86mph time (range of 3rd gear from 2500-redline).

Just like that, the car adds 110 whp and 150 lb/ft tq. and I felt it bigtime. The blue line is the baseline and red line is the JB4 Map 2. This is standard correction factor for dynojet (1.09) with smoothing 4. It's a little higher than what Burg tuning claimed on their website; maybe due to the fuel wires and EWG control? Say it's within 5% of that, I'm still happy.

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You can see it was all boost. The JB4 Map 2 is supposed to command +5psi and it was dead on. Dead on. Good on Burg tuning. . My car seemed to tolerate Map 2 well on 91 octane fuel only. No sign of ECM pulling timing, i.e. knock event during the pull.

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At this point, I think I will do LDPs and maybe WMI at some point if I'm feeling saucy. That puts the car with as much power as I'm willing to go for a daily. My mind is blown at how cheap high HP is in this car.
 

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2017 infiniti Q50 AWD
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Non red sports are pretty gimped from factory so it’s easy to pickup a lot at first. Red sport still picks up a little but would be more inline with what your accustomed to from other platforms.
 

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2021 Q50 RedSport, MBRP Cat-Back. HKS BOV, AMS LDP, Mishimoto Catch Can
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The JB4 is a game changer for the Q50, especially the non redsports. Non Redsport pushes about 8.7 pounds of boost and RS about 14, RS also has an extra water pump/turbo sensors (See previous thread).
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
I would say the most amazing thing for me as a testament to the JB4;. Look at how the boost curve builds vs. commanded in the graph I posted above. The JB4 is so fast that it actually matches the commanded curve better than stock. It is intercepting the stock signal, changing it, and applying it so fast that it matches the exact commanded curve. Wild.
 

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2021 Q50 RedSport, MBRP Cat-Back. HKS BOV, AMS LDP, Mishimoto Catch Can
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Adding LDP's like you mentioned above will be a huge gain, enjoy your ride and keep an eye on those logs!
 
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JB4 definitely makes great power but if you really want to feel the potential of the car I would go with an ecutek tune eventually. The JB4 can't do much for getting the car off the line because it can't override how the factory ecu limits power during the launch. I picked up almost a full second on my 0-60 by switching to ecutek. 4.5 to 3.5, I also went with e30 at the same time so guessing I'd be around a 3.8 on 93.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
JB4 definitely makes great power but if you really want to feel the potential of the car I would go with an ecutek tune eventually. The JB4 can't do much for getting the car off the line because it can't override how the factory ecu limits power during the launch. I picked up almost a full second on my 0-60 by switching to ecutek. 4.5 to 3.5, I also went with e30 at the same time so guessing I'd be around a 3.8 on 93.
I totally get this. It does launch a little soft and I understand the JB4 is just a boost adder. Having said that, it will keep me from straining the drivetrain and wearing tires this way.

Also, with CA clamping down on ECU tunes and the car still being well under warranty, I think this is a good fit for now.
 

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Also, with CA clamping down on ECU tunes and the car still being well under warranty, I think this is a good fit for now.
Yeah, for the CA forum members, the new aftermarket tune check during emissions testing is over-the-top. If I read the rules correctly, emissions testing is not done for the 1st 5 years of the car's ownership, so then it's a matter of having a mod-friendly dealer so that your warranty doesn't get denied because it has a flash tune. Brutal...
 

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Or move out of Commiefornia. Unless you like high taxes, over priced everything, power-grab regulations and laws, homeless everywhere because of the fore mentioned, and high crime rates. But if you do move to a free state, leave the politics that ruined California, in California.
 

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Ya, wild. How does the RS pick up so much power stock? They just run the turbos a little harder?
The 400 HP version runs 14.7 PSI boost vs. 9.5 PSI for the 300 HP version.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I have been looking at the flat spot in the HP curve you see below (green line) from 4500-5500. Sure enough, it looks like the ECM pulled a degree of timing in that range (it didn't in the stock map pull). I'm used to being able to monitor a knock sensor of some sort that triggers pulling timing advance; it's hard not having that as a tuning tool.

The light blue line below is IGN advance; it drops from 9 deg. adv to 7 deg. between 4200-5200 which makes perfect sense why the HP curve went flat there.

I guess I'll have to do more logs. My instinct is to probably go to a map 1 and do pulls to see if the ECM pulls timing. If it is a clean pull with no pulled timing, I'll make a custom map with +5psi up to 3.5k for the nice torque bump, and then +4psi to ~5500 and then goose it up to redline. This is a reminder WHY I hated tuning on 91 pump gas so much. I also didn't have access to corn, so I went 50/50 WMI with great success. Seeing now that the turbo has good efficiency to ~17psi to redline and the JB4 can manage a WMI pump with failsafe, there seems to be a logical path there even without going full ECM tune.

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That timing drop in mid range you speak of is pretty normal. (With no log can’t confirm 100% but most likely) It will essentially follow an inverse ratio to boost until hitting peak boost typically around 5200ish rpm and then timing will steadily climb back up till redline. Timing obviously increases with RPM but decreases with boost so it also depends on boost map configuration exactly what will happen.

The turbos have good efficiency tapered up to 18psi mid range, but taper back down to 15psi at 6500. And typically a lot less to redline for shift boost spikes.

Many people myself included have had great success with WMI. I was even running small nozzles pre turbo in addition to post to help that top end turbo efficiency and keep that torque drop off less severe.

I believe this is peak turbo efficiency pic below

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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
Seems like forever ago I discussed the timing drop in the ~5k range with Terry @ BMS in this thread:Infiniti Q50 3.0t VR30DDTT Red Sport and Silver Sport BMS Stage1 & JB4 - N54Tech.com - International Turbo Racing Discussion
We both came to the conclusion that its a step change in the spark map vs. load/airflow table. I wouldn't sweat the drop unless its several degrees.
Interesting. The stock map didn't do that. The stock map held 9.5 deg. adv through the entire midrange. I see what you're saying though if the higher boost and load results in a map transition there. Does the stock RS pull timing in the midrange? If so, that totally makes sense.

Most platforms have ignition retard from a knock event which in my experience is usually a degree or two.

I can feel the flat spot in the power curve which bugs me.
 

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Interesting. The stock map didn't do that. The stock map held 9.5 deg. adv through the entire midrange. I see what you're saying though if the higher boost and load results in a map transition there. Does the stock RS pull timing in the midrange? If so, that totally makes sense.

Most platforms have ignition retard from a knock event which in my experience is usually a degree or two.

I can feel the flat spot in the power curve which bugs me.
I believe it does, but not to the extent that happens with JB4 maps as the JB4 maps add a progressively increased amount of boost causing the boost to ramp up at a "steeper angle" vs stock.

You can typically see a more sudden larger drop in timing from a knock event, especially if it is in a part of the "timing curve" where it would normally be going up but drops instead that is a strong indicator its knocking and pulling timing.

AVG IGN is learned retard. This is what you would look at more long term.
 

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Interesting. The stock map didn't do that. The stock map held 9.5 deg. adv through the entire midrange. I see what you're saying though if the higher boost and load results in a map transition there. Does the stock RS pull timing in the midrange? If so, that totally makes sense.

Most platforms have ignition retard from a knock event which in my experience is usually a degree or two.

I can feel the flat spot in the power curve which bugs me.
The stock map doesn't hit the same airflow/load cells, that's why you dont see it.
 

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I believe it does, but not to the extent that happens with JB4 maps as the JB4 maps add a progressively increased amount of boost causing the boost to ramp up at a "steeper angle" vs stock.

You can typically see a more sudden larger drop in timing from a knock event, especially if it is in a part of the "timing curve" where it would normally be going up but drops instead that is a strong indicator its knocking and pulling timing.

AVG IGN is learned retard. This is what you would look at more long term.
I guess AVG IGN is only for other platforms and not ours and does not do anything. so disregard.

I read the parameters on the link I was advised to by a burger employee when I had asked about certain other parameters. As he refused to give me specific information behind providing the link...

Upon initial testing after reading the forum defining AVG IGN as ignition retard, using WMI and/or Ethanol mix with varying and consistent boost maps to test it out, it correlated to what was listed for AVG IGN, but it must have been a coincidence or some other factor.
 
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