[jcb]

Timing (Ign1) has the normal curve through RPM band. AFR looks good but a little on the rich side (normal for Q50/60). Only concern would be that trims are maxing (value of 44). Fuel wires would help lean out the AFR a bit and maybe bring your trims down a little. I would hook them up if you have them. I would not go above map 3 at this time. Keep logging and see how the car adapts.

FYI - I am looking at the 1st pull on the graph. 2nd one has a gear shift or 2 and is too short to evaluate. Most important values - Ign1 - looks perfect in your pull. It would be ok if values were lower by a bit...key is it is that smooth curve without any large drops (except at gear shift it generally goes to zero). AFR should settle in at high 10, low 11 if you don't have fuel wires...with fuel wires it will be around 12. Trims value of 44 means its maxing out fuel delivery and trying to make AFR richer. OK to see a max value, but ideally you would want to see it move up and down. This means it has enough delivery capacity to get to the target AFR commanded by the ECU tune. Only concern is that the trims are maxed for extended period early in the pull. AFR generally stays lean until the turbos spool up so its not unusual to see higher AFR early in the pull.

 

[Floridaman]

Timing (Ign1) has the normal curve through RPM band. AFR looks good but a little on the rich side (normal for Q50/60). Only concern would be that trims are maxing (value of 44). Fuel wires would help lean out the AFR a bit and maybe bring your trims down a little. I would hook them up if you have them. I would not go above map 3 at this time. Keep logging and see how the car adapts.

FYI - I am looking at the 1st pull on the graph. 2nd one has a gear shift or 2 and is too short to evaluate. Most important values - Ign1 - looks perfect in your pull. It would be ok if values were lower by a bit...key is it is that smooth curve without any large drops (except at gear shift it generally goes to zero). AFR should settle in at high 10, low 11 if you don't have fuel wires...with fuel wires it will be around 12. Trims value of 44 means its maxing out fuel delivery and trying to make AFR richer. OK to see a max value, but ideally you would want to see it move up and down. This means it has enough delivery capacity to get to the target AFR commanded by the ECU tune. Only concern is that the trims are maxed for extended period early in the pull. AFR generally stays lean until the turbos spool up so its not unusual to see higher AFR early in the pull.

Great, thank you for the review. I really appreciate the explanations on what is going on! I do have fuel wires connected, is there a way to verify they are working? In regard to the maxing out on trims, I am at E18 now based on mixing ratio, would going to straight 93 be potentially a better solution? Or maybe something less than E18?

 

[jcb]

On the fuel wires, you should see some values in the Fuelen parameter, especially in the high RPM range. There function is to lean the AFR to a more ideal ratio because the stock tune is pretty rich. Yes I would definitely try just straight 93 octane gas. Should be plenty for map 3 if its decent quality.

 

[Avedis53]

Great, thank you for the review. I really appreciate the explanations on what is going on! I do have fuel wires connected, is there a way to verify they are working? In regard to the maxing out on trims, I am at E18 now based on mixing ratio, would going to straight 93 be potentially a better solution? Or maybe something less than E18?

Did you enable the fuel wires in the software? Bit 0 should be enabled in the JB4 software under the Options section of the User Adjustment Settings.

 

[Floridaman]

Did you enable the fuel wires in the software? Bit 0 should be enabled in the JB4 software under the Options section of the User Adjustment Settings.

Yes, Bit 0 was enabled. Thanks.

 

[Floridaman]

On the fuel wires, you should see some values in the Fuelen parameter, especially in the high RPM range. There function is to lean the AFR to a more ideal ratio because the stock tune is pretty rich. Yes I would definitely try just straight 93 octane gas. Should be plenty for map 3 if its decent quality.

Just checked and yes starting at just under 5,000 rpm to 7,000 rpm I am seeing numbers under Fuelen and Bit 0 is enabled so looks like it is working

 

[[email protected]]

FYI - If you plan to use E fuel blends - consider a LPFP upgrade to help those trim numbers.

 

[Floridaman]

Yes I would definitely try just straight 93 octane gas. Should be plenty for map 3 if its decent quality.

Just filled up the tank with 93 only. Third gear pull below. Still has fuel trims at times at 44 but how does it look overall?

 

[17awdQ50P]

Trims in and of itself is not indicative of an issue or concern necessarily, it’s one parameter to look at and consider, but ultimately if AFR is at desired level then trims being high isn’t necessarily an issue.

If AFR and timing are at desired levels and trims aren’t maxed that is a strong indicator you are not maximizing your setups potential, and have the octane and fuel delivery to support more boost. Obviously datalog to confirm.

If AFR and timing are at desired levels and fuel trims are maxed you probably have the octane for more boost but do not have the fuel delivery to support more boost and you are essentially maxing your current setup until you can deliver more fuel IE LPFP/WMI

If AFR is at desired levels, trims are not maxed but timing is not at desired levels then you have fuel delivery to support more boost but you do not have the octane to support more boost or potentially the octane to even support current boost and may need to reduce.

 

[jcb]

Trims were tamed quite a bit...in the previous run your trims were constantly maxed from about 3500 to 6k RPM...this pull you just barely touch max and then it saw-tooths. You can see there was a bit of a trade off in your timing values...a bit lower then you saw on the higher E mix. You could try moving up one more map and see how it does on the 93 fuel or I think you are safe leaving it where it is.

 

[nickdaria]

Thoughts on my logs?
Just got a couple of logs today on the way to the library. Wanted to check here and make sure everything is in order before trying to ask about dialing in a Map6.

2016 Q50 3.0t AWD (new engine w/ ~3k miles)
~90-100F temps

1. Map1 (+4psi) - Datazap
2. Map2 (+5psi) - Datazap

 

[jcb]

Thoughts on my logs?
Just got a couple of logs today on the way to the library. Wanted to check here and make sure everything is in order before trying to ask about dialing in a Map6.

2016 Q50 3.0t AWD (new engine w/ ~3k miles)
~90-100F temps

1. Map1 (+4psi) - Datazap
2. Map2 (+5psi) - Datazap

Nick, for your data logs you want to use manual mode in 3rd gear. Start at low RPM, say 2500 and stay full throttle up to redline. If you can shift to 4th and stay in it a little bit more, that is ideal. You will be moving pretty fast though so make sure you can do it safely. What is there in your logs looks fine (no red flags). Map 1 and 2 is still pretty conservative on a non-RS model. Your peak psi is about 13 on map 2 and you have a small boost spike of 14 at shift - pretty normal stuff.

I suggest you go ahead and do a proper log on Map 3 and post back. Most of these cars hit their limit around map 5 with decent quality 93 octane pump gas.

 

[Ddnspider]

A 1-3 gear pull up to 5500 in 3rd isn't bad. Not max load, but still not bad if it hooks up decently for logging purposes, especially if you don't typically go 100 mph lol. Boost/timing is fine. AFR is a little lean for my taste given that you plan to up the boost. Curious to see what a higher map looks like.

 

[nickdaria]

Nick, for your data logs you want to use manual mode in 3rd gear. Start at low RPM, say 2500 and stay full throttle up to redline. If you can shift to 4th and stay in it a little bit more, that is ideal. You will be moving pretty fast though so make sure you can do it safely.

I suggest you go ahead and do a proper log on Map 3 and post back. Most of these cars hit their limit around map 5 with decent quality 93 octane pump gas.

Sounds good, I'll grab a proper log on the way home from work today.

A 1-3 gear pull up to 5500 in 3rd isn't bad. Not max load, but still not bad if it hooks up decently for logging purposes, especially if you don't typically go 100 mph lol. Boost/timing is fine. AFR is a little lean for my taste given that you plan to up the boost. Curious to see what a higher map looks like.

Sweet, I'll snag a log tonight. What could be causing the lower A/F ratios?

I don't have the JB4 fuel wires plugged in because I would like to track down a connector. I turned off the bit in the JB4 app though.

 

[Ddnspider]

Your AFR is leaner than I'd like, aka higher. When you up the boost itll likely get worse. Getting fuel wires added would give you the ability to adjust that. I guess as long as its not knocking and you run good gas its not a big deal.

 

[nickdaria]

Your AFR is leaner than I'd like, aka higher. When you up the boost itll likely get worse. Getting fuel wires added would give you the ability to adjust that. I guess as long as its not knocking and you run good gas its not a big deal.

Does the JB4 have a method to check for knock? I would love to keep an eye on it. I do plan to get the fuel wires down the road, I just can't track down the eBay sellers. -- Just nervous about the Posi-tap because of that one user who had his warranty request denied.

EDIT: by fuel wires I mean the piggyback connectors.

 

[Ddnspider]

Does the JB4 have a method to check for knock? I would love to keep an eye on it. I do plan to get the fuel wires down the road, I just can't track down the eBay sellers. -- Just nervous about the Posi-tap because of that one user who had his warranty request denied.

EDIT: by fuel wires I mean the piggyback connectors.

Not directly. You have to monitoring timing to see if its doing something abnormal indicating knock. I don't think they make those piggyback harnesses anymore but maybe you can find a pair.

 

[Avedis53]

Does the JB4 have a method to check for knock? I would love to keep an eye on it. I do plan to get the fuel wires down the road, I just can't track down the eBay sellers. -- Just nervous about the Posi-tap because of that one user who had his warranty request denied.

EDIT: by fuel wires I mean the piggyback connectors.

I don't see any direct knock notification in the JB4 app, so the data logs can help determine knock as spider indicated. The VR30 knock sensors transmit a signal to the ECM when engine knock is detected. The ECM retards ignition timing to eliminate the knocking condition.

The guy making those fuel wire harnesses has disappeared. I bought a set from him that had crappy connectors that wouldn't mate up with the engine harness. He sent me a second set that didn't work either. I gave up on his poor QC, sh1t-canned the harness, and went with posi-taps.

 

[jcb]

Does the JB4 have a method to check for knock? I would love to keep an eye on it.

You can't see knock directly, but you can see the car's reaction to it. Ign1 field measures the timing advance called for by the ECU. When the ECU detects knock, it pulls back the ignition timing to avoid knock. You will see large drops in the Ign1 value when this is occurring indicating you are likely experiencing knock.

It's a little tricky because the timing does not remain constant. At WOT, timing advance will be high at lower RPM's, taper down in mid range and then back up as you approach redline. Ign1 field will show teens down to mid single digits, then back up to double digits. If you see big drops, values of zero or very low single digit values, you probably need to back off on the boost.

Also keep in mind that ECU resets timing to zero at each shift so don't get concerned when you see it go to zero at the shift. It should bounce right back to the normal curve after that though.

 

[jcb]

Sweet, I'll snag a log tonight. What could be causing the lower A/F ratios?
I don't have the JB4 fuel wires plugged in because I would like to track down a connector. I turned off the bit in the JB4 app though.

Here you are watching AFR and trims. Generally if trims are below max (44 in Trims1 and Trims2 fields) then the car is managing the AFR where it wants it. When you start seeing a lot of values of 44 in your log during a pull, means the car is out of fueling capacity. Really want to ensure your AFR is staying in a safe range when you max out like that. 13 is about as high as you want to see it. Stock ECU tries to deliver a richer mix of high 10's low 11's. The JB4 fuel wires main function is to lean out the mix to a target of low 12's. BMS tuners believe this delivers more power but is still a safe level. I have tons of respect for DDNSpider (as you can see I copied his whole JB4 setup and even his pedal tuner). He has debated for a richer AFR than the BMS targets. When I reviewed the logs you posted, it looked pretty typical stock ECU to me.