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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Now that we know it can be done (Oreo Build), how necessary is this? How confident are you that your local tire shop can even do this properly? Without doing any research, I can't imagine the q50 being the only car on the road to have this type of steering system. I'm definitely interested in lowering the car once springs come available but hesitant now without knowing how difficult it may be to deal with the DAS system.

Not only that, I'm also a little worried that should I have some type of failure of the DAS system Infiniti will probably point directly at any suspension modifications I may have as the sole culprit..

thoughts... advice..input?

Thanks...
 

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Definitely not able to be done at a local tire shop! Das calibration needs some special software and in my experience the calibrator had a specific device to do it then had to do some re-learning afterwards by driving the car! Didnt get to see what had to be done since I didnt ride along!

Yes the Q50 is the only one with DAS since it is the first car to adopt it! The only ones i know that has it are planes!

I would be confident on mine since I had everything done at an infiniti dealership! ;)

Edit: I would also like to add that it has been over a month and there have been no errors or problems so far! :)
 

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Definitely not able to be done at a local tire shop! Das calibration needs some special software and in my experience the calibrator had a specific device to do it then had to do some re-learning afterwards by driving the car! Didnt get to see what had to be done since I didnt ride along!

Yes the Q50 is the only one with DAS since it is the first car to adopt it! The only ones i know that has it are planes!

I would be confident on mine since I had everything done at an infiniti dealership! ;)

Edit: I would also like to add that it has been over a month and there have been no errors or problems so far! :)
The Q50 is the first massed produced car to adopt "steer by wire", DAS or whatever you want to call it. The technology actually has been around for a while. There are cars out there with joysticks instead of the typical wheel for steering.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Definitely not able to be done at a local tire shop! Das calibration needs some special software and in my experience the calibrator had a specific device to do it then had to do some re-learning afterwards by driving the car! Didnt get to see what had to be done since I didnt ride along!

Yes the Q50 is the only one with DAS since it is the first car to adopt it! The only ones i know that has it are planes!

I would be confident on mine since I had everything done at an infiniti dealership! ;)

Edit: I would also like to add that it has been over a month and there have been no errors or problems so far! :)
You've certaintly set the bar around here pal!

So correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but did you have your car calibrated by Infiniti after installing coils?! How did you manage that?! Also, is it absolutely necessary to have the DAS calibrated after lowering? Every car I've owned has been lowered and I wanted nothing less for the Q however this looks to be a big pain in the ass!

I though the newer Benz had an all electronic steering system?
 

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You've certaintly set the bar around here pal!

So correct me if I'm misunderstanding you but did you have your car calibrated by Infiniti after installing coils?! How did you manage that?! Also, is it absolutely necessary to have the DAS calibrated after lowering? Every car I've owned has been lowered and I wanted nothing less for the Q however this looks to be a big pain in the ass!

I though the newer Benz had an all electronic steering system?
Thanks man! I guess u have to be ballsy sometimes! Hehe!

Yes sir! Was just lucky to come across someone that does this for their infiniti dealership!;)

Basically the install and the calibration was done at the service department the whole time!

Not too sure about needing the calibration but that one I didnt want to risk! Once my guy told me that it was able to be calibrated, I had to do have him do the alignment and calibration after the coilover install!

Hmmm...not sure about the benz! Not familiar of other cars with steer by wire!
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks man! I guess u have to be ballsy sometimes! Hehe!

Yes sir! Was just lucky to come across someone that does this for their infiniti dealership!;)

Basically the install and the calibration was done at the service department the whole time!

Not too sure about needing the calibration but that one I didnt want to risk! Once my guy told me that it was able to be calibrated, I had to do have him do the alignment and calibration after the coilover install!

Hmmm...not sure about the benz! Not familiar of other cars with steer by wire!

Yea thats a fact! Gotta take that leap... Now I just have to start hangig around NJ Infinit dealerships in hopes of finding a tech capable and willing to do this lol. For now I'll have to live with stock ride height and custom spacers to give the appearance of less wheel gap. If anyone reading this knows of a tech at Infiniti in the tri-state area please feel free to introduce me lol!

It would be interesting to find out how much lowering the car would affect the DAS system. I believe there's someone on the board (Steve?) that works for Infiniti. Maybe we could get him to chime in? I would pm him but I'm new to the board and don't think I can pm people yet?
 

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Haha! Good luck bro! I hope even some reps here in the forum working in your area can vouch and hook up!
 

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I too wish you the best of luck with this.

As far as lowering the car effecting the DAS, short term it seems to be ok. Althought my biggest concern with your car is the awd. I have seen a few issues with lowering awd sedans in the past, usually effects the vdc operation on turns or torque split while turning. I think it goes without saying all of those were different models though.

I am reluctant to commit anything to writing because honestly no one really knows at this point.

Yes ALL DAS calibration has be done with the dealer computer. I would not have any other shop perform any alignment procedure on these cars yet.

I guess we will know how it goes soon enough.
Someone's got to be the first right :)
 

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Well, we have lowered and aligned two Q50's here at the shop. One with regular steering and one with DAS. The non DAS car was a non issue. The car with DAS took a little more work and required applying the manual recalibration procedure. It is TSB ITB13-029. As most of you may know, after lowering any vehicle, you usually end up with toe out. Most of the times it is an equal amount on both sides so bringing the toe in the same amount on the left and right does nothing to change the steering angle sensor position. On the car with DAS, the steering wheel was a little off center. After positioning the steering wheel straight ahead and setting toe. We test drove the car and the car pulled to the left. After applying the manual reset procedure, all was corrected and the car drove straight and the steering wheel was perfectly straight. Customer reports no issues and car is perfect.

The procedure is on page 4 of a thread right here on this forum. Worked like a champ. So for those out there concerned about getting an alignment after lowering a DAS equipped car, I think you will be ok. Maybe Steve can comment on our findings.

Here is the link with the reset/relearn procedure. You have to drive straight fo about 30-45 seconds.

http://www.infinitiq50.org/forum/ne...er-affairs-telling-me-not-drive-my-car-4.html
 

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Well, we have lowered and aligned two Q50's here at the shop. One with regular steering and one with DAS. The non DAS car was a non issue. The car with DAS took a little more work and required applying the manual recalibration procedure. It is TSB ITB13-029. As most of you may know, after lowering any vehicle, you usually end up with toe out. Most of the times it is an equal amount on both sides so bringing the toe in the same amount on the left and right does nothing to change the steering angle sensor position. On the car with DAS, the steering wheel was a little off center. After positioning the steering wheel straight ahead and setting toe. We test drove the car and the car pulled to the left. After applying the manual reset procedure, all was corrected and the car drove straight and the steering wheel was perfectly straight. Customer reports no issues and car is perfect.

The procedure is on page 4 of a thread right here on this forum. Worked like a champ. So for those out there concerned about getting an alignment after lowering a DAS equipped car, I think you will be ok. Maybe Steve can comment on our findings.

Here is the link with the reset/relearn procedure. You have to drive straight fo about 30-45 seconds.

http://www.infinitiq50.org/forum/ne...er-affairs-telling-me-not-drive-my-car-4.html
Hmmm...so u guys never used a computer to do the das recalibrating procedure?
 

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No, no reason to recalibrate. Just making minor toe changes shouldn't affect steering protocols in my mind. We just used the manual relearn procedure to relearn steering angle position and reset steering wheel straight ahead. Toe adjustments affect the distance relationship from wheel to wheel as well as the relationship of rack position to steering wheel. With the DAS cars you are setting the relationship from wheel to wheel with the standard manual adjustments (tie rod ends) and then using the relearn procedure to reset steering angle sensor to zero and force car to recalibrate so steering wheel is level and tires point straight a head.

It is nice that there is a manual relearn that doesn't require hooking up to a computer. Like I said, hopefully someone like Steve or another engineer can shed light on possible issues with this work flow. As of now, car drives perfect. This TSB applies to cars with off center steering wheels so logic would suggest that this is exactly what it is designed to correct.

Mike
 

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Mike, I'm assuming these were lowered using coilovers. How much of a drop was involved? Did you only need to perform Toe-In adjustments? Any camber adjusted? I'm don't know enough about suspension geometry and alignment specs, so just getting a feel for what to expect when I do lower. I'm waiting for a minor drop via springs most likely. Interesting to see the DAS relearn process work out.
 
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No, no reason to recalibrate. Just making minor toe changes shouldn't affect steering protocols in my mind. We just used the manual relearn procedure to relearn steering angle position and reset steering wheel straight ahead. Toe adjustments affect the distance relationship from wheel to wheel as well as the relationship of rack position to steering wheel. With the DAS cars you are setting the relationship from wheel to wheel with the standard manual adjustments (tie rod ends) and then using the relearn procedure to reset steering angle sensor to zero and force car to recalibrate so steering wheel is level and tires point straight a head.

It is nice that there is a manual relearn that doesn't require hooking up to a computer. Like I said, hopefully someone like Steve or another engineer can shed light on possible issues with this work flow. As of now, car drives perfect. This TSB applies to cars with off center steering wheels so logic would suggest that this is exactly what it is designed to correct.

Mike
Good to know that worked man! How long since the car was manually recalibrated?
 

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No, no reason to recalibrate. Just making minor toe changes shouldn't affect steering protocols in my mind. We just used the manual relearn procedure to relearn steering angle position and reset steering wheel straight ahead. Toe adjustments affect the distance relationship from wheel to wheel as well as the relationship of rack position to steering wheel. With the DAS cars you are setting the relationship from wheel to wheel with the standard manual adjustments (tie rod ends) and then using the relearn procedure to reset steering angle sensor to zero and force car to recalibrate so steering wheel is level and tires point straight a head.

It is nice that there is a manual relearn that doesn't require hooking up to a computer. Like I said, hopefully someone like Steve or another engineer can shed light on possible issues with this work flow. As of now, car drives perfect. This TSB applies to cars with off center steering wheels so logic would suggest that this is exactly what it is designed to correct.

Mike
Hey Mike,
A minor adjustment to total toe shouldn't change much in my mind either. Unfortunately I have to disagree with your original statement. According to the shop manual the alignment procedure for DAST equipped vehicles has a long list of cautions before the procedure the first one reads:
Always perform DAST calibration with CONSULT when adjusting the toe-in. (It cannot be adjusted without CONSULT.)

I see and agree with your logic RE: adjusting the toe should trigger the computer to relearn it's new position. That may be the case in the not so distant future but according the 2014 manual that is not how they want us (everyone) to perform alignments on these cars. Their theory behind this is you cannot prove (to their standards) that the steering wheel is perfectly centered enough to line the car to it. The DAST calibration procedure has you raise the wheels on the rack, perform the calibration, then set the alignment without moving the car. Logically it makes sense, practicality is another story.

I am sure someone out there will (and apparently has already) test the book's statements. I would not stake my reputation on trying to do this myself without the strongly recommended computer reset. Exceeding the allowable (and unknown) margin of error will result in serious faults and driveability problems. There is an entire section of the book dedicated to fixing this exact type of problem.

I try to be on top of all available service procedures for these cars. It is possible you have something I have not seen. If you have something stating something to the contrary could you PM me. I am very curious there is a steering angle sensor adjustment that should be possible but nothing to reset the DAST learned positions.

The TSB for force learning a new center is something the car actually does all the time on all the time while driving...complicating matters when you are actually trying to find TDC.

I would not stake my reputation on a guess at this point. Due to the significant potential consequences for getting this wrong I would strongly urge against winging it. I am sure someone will create a thread about a problem in the future and it will attract all types of drama here but we are all learning as we go here. My hope is that enough people come across these threads and educate themselves before it happens instead of after.
 

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I think this was what was done on mine after lowering! We had the car on the alignment ramp and did the necessary alignment procedure to be done then hooked up the computer to do the das recalibration while still on the rack then drove out and did the relearning procedure! So far so good on my end and I think its been 2 months or something! No problems on my end! :)
 

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What if you are only returning the toe back to what it was before lowering the car. For example: car has .05 toe in on both fronts before lowering. After lowering car has .05 toe out. By adjusting toe, you are putting toe back to the same spec it was before the lowering. If the "rack" is staying in the same position relative to the steering wheel, and only the outer tie rod ends are being adjusted, and the amount of toe is being returned to the same amount prior to lowering, then how would the car know anything has been changed? Just throwing this out for contemplation. :)
 

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Interesting theory! I am going to constantly check on this thread and hopefully we be enlightened with the proper way to go about lowering a car with DAS by the end of this! I hope some more Infiniti Techs can chime in to give their theories or provide more knowledge! :)
 

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I do not necessarily disagree from a theoretical perspective. But again the 1000lb elephant in the room is the untested (modification wise) electric steering system we really know very little about as far as fault detection, tolerances, and just what you can get away with without causing some serious problems.

If we are going to talk theory...should toe really move 0.10" off base total just to drop the car .5" assuming all that is done is install a new coil spring?
I have been lowering and aligning these cars and they usually do not move beyond my tolerance (~0.04"). If I had to make this call on a Q50 w/ DAS, I would skip the alignment with that procedure over trying something new.

If it were my personal car I might give it a shot...If I were selling someone my services it would be a different story.

Just to CmyA I want to be on record voicing opposition to DIY'ing alignments on these cars right now. There just is not enough information out there to disregard the books' bold text.
 
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