Infiniti Q50 Forum banner

Lowering and DAS calibration

23K views 37 replies 13 participants last post by  William 
#1 ·
Now that we know it can be done (Oreo Build), how necessary is this? How confident are you that your local tire shop can even do this properly? Without doing any research, I can't imagine the q50 being the only car on the road to have this type of steering system. I'm definitely interested in lowering the car once springs come available but hesitant now without knowing how difficult it may be to deal with the DAS system.

Not only that, I'm also a little worried that should I have some type of failure of the DAS system Infiniti will probably point directly at any suspension modifications I may have as the sole culprit..

thoughts... advice..input?

Thanks...
 
#2 ·
Definitely not able to be done at a local tire shop! Das calibration needs some special software and in my experience the calibrator had a specific device to do it then had to do some re-learning afterwards by driving the car! Didnt get to see what had to be done since I didnt ride along!

Yes the Q50 is the only one with DAS since it is the first car to adopt it! The only ones i know that has it are planes!

I would be confident on mine since I had everything done at an infiniti dealership! ;)

Edit: I would also like to add that it has been over a month and there have been no errors or problems so far! :)
 
#8 ·
Haha! Good luck bro! I hope even some reps here in the forum working in your area can vouch and hook up!
 
#9 ·
I too wish you the best of luck with this.

As far as lowering the car effecting the DAS, short term it seems to be ok. Althought my biggest concern with your car is the awd. I have seen a few issues with lowering awd sedans in the past, usually effects the vdc operation on turns or torque split while turning. I think it goes without saying all of those were different models though.

I am reluctant to commit anything to writing because honestly no one really knows at this point.

Yes ALL DAS calibration has be done with the dealer computer. I would not have any other shop perform any alignment procedure on these cars yet.

I guess we will know how it goes soon enough.
Someone's got to be the first right :)
 
#10 ·
Well, we have lowered and aligned two Q50's here at the shop. One with regular steering and one with DAS. The non DAS car was a non issue. The car with DAS took a little more work and required applying the manual recalibration procedure. It is TSB ITB13-029. As most of you may know, after lowering any vehicle, you usually end up with toe out. Most of the times it is an equal amount on both sides so bringing the toe in the same amount on the left and right does nothing to change the steering angle sensor position. On the car with DAS, the steering wheel was a little off center. After positioning the steering wheel straight ahead and setting toe. We test drove the car and the car pulled to the left. After applying the manual reset procedure, all was corrected and the car drove straight and the steering wheel was perfectly straight. Customer reports no issues and car is perfect.

The procedure is on page 4 of a thread right here on this forum. Worked like a champ. So for those out there concerned about getting an alignment after lowering a DAS equipped car, I think you will be ok. Maybe Steve can comment on our findings.

Here is the link with the reset/relearn procedure. You have to drive straight fo about 30-45 seconds.

http://www.infinitiq50.org/forum/ne...er-affairs-telling-me-not-drive-my-car-4.html
 
#11 ·
Hmmm...so u guys never used a computer to do the das recalibrating procedure?
 
#12 ·
No, no reason to recalibrate. Just making minor toe changes shouldn't affect steering protocols in my mind. We just used the manual relearn procedure to relearn steering angle position and reset steering wheel straight ahead. Toe adjustments affect the distance relationship from wheel to wheel as well as the relationship of rack position to steering wheel. With the DAS cars you are setting the relationship from wheel to wheel with the standard manual adjustments (tie rod ends) and then using the relearn procedure to reset steering angle sensor to zero and force car to recalibrate so steering wheel is level and tires point straight a head.

It is nice that there is a manual relearn that doesn't require hooking up to a computer. Like I said, hopefully someone like Steve or another engineer can shed light on possible issues with this work flow. As of now, car drives perfect. This TSB applies to cars with off center steering wheels so logic would suggest that this is exactly what it is designed to correct.

Mike
 
#14 ·
Good to know that worked man! How long since the car was manually recalibrated?
 
#13 ·
Mike, I'm assuming these were lowered using coilovers. How much of a drop was involved? Did you only need to perform Toe-In adjustments? Any camber adjusted? I'm don't know enough about suspension geometry and alignment specs, so just getting a feel for what to expect when I do lower. I'm waiting for a minor drop via springs most likely. Interesting to see the DAS relearn process work out.
 
  • Like
Reactions: bbrowne
#17 ·
I think this was what was done on mine after lowering! We had the car on the alignment ramp and did the necessary alignment procedure to be done then hooked up the computer to do the das recalibration while still on the rack then drove out and did the relearning procedure! So far so good on my end and I think its been 2 months or something! No problems on my end! :)
 
#18 ·
What if you are only returning the toe back to what it was before lowering the car. For example: car has .05 toe in on both fronts before lowering. After lowering car has .05 toe out. By adjusting toe, you are putting toe back to the same spec it was before the lowering. If the "rack" is staying in the same position relative to the steering wheel, and only the outer tie rod ends are being adjusted, and the amount of toe is being returned to the same amount prior to lowering, then how would the car know anything has been changed? Just throwing this out for contemplation. :)
 
#19 ·
Interesting theory! I am going to constantly check on this thread and hopefully we be enlightened with the proper way to go about lowering a car with DAS by the end of this! I hope some more Infiniti Techs can chime in to give their theories or provide more knowledge! :)
 
#20 ·
I do not necessarily disagree from a theoretical perspective. But again the 1000lb elephant in the room is the untested (modification wise) electric steering system we really know very little about as far as fault detection, tolerances, and just what you can get away with without causing some serious problems.

If we are going to talk theory...should toe really move 0.10" off base total just to drop the car .5" assuming all that is done is install a new coil spring?
I have been lowering and aligning these cars and they usually do not move beyond my tolerance (~0.04"). If I had to make this call on a Q50 w/ DAS, I would skip the alignment with that procedure over trying something new.

If it were my personal car I might give it a shot...If I were selling someone my services it would be a different story.

Just to CmyA I want to be on record voicing opposition to DIY'ing alignments on these cars right now. There just is not enough information out there to disregard the books' bold text.
 
#21 ·
Steve, we are just an independent shop so I do not have technical info on these cars outside of what I can grab off the internet. I am sure working at the dealership, you have all the correct info on these cars. That is why I asked for your input. In this case we would have preferred to have the customer go to the dealership for the alignment but there was a miscommunication regarding us doing the alignment for him as we normally do for our customers a week after we lower their cars, and he drove all the way over here to get it done. Since he had come so far, we felt obligated to take a look at what we could do for him.

As expected, the car had some toe out from lowering the car. It wasn't much, but the steering wheel was crooked to the right as well. As one would normally do, we centered the steering wheel and reset the toe accordingly. This is when we had the issue of the car pulling left even though the steering wheel was straight. We went online and found the DAS relearn procedure which immediately fixed the problem. In hind sight, we should have done the relearn procedure first in order to reset the steering wheel level, and then taken the same amount of toe off of each side putting it back to what it was originally.

Since the outcome was positive, I figured I would post my findings for others to reference. Please feel free to point out any issues that could arise from doing this.

Mike
 
#23 ·
Steve, we are just an independent shop so I do not have technical info on these cars outside of what I can grab off the internet. I am sure working at the dealership, you have all the correct info on these cars.

Since the outcome was positive, I figured I would post my findings for others to reference. Please feel free to point out any issues that could arise from doing this.

Mike
I hope no tone was read in to my earlier post. I am such a geek for this stuff I tend to type quickly when talking about certain topics. I have nothing but respect for the work done in the real world. I foresee this being a new thing until these systems are more widely adopted and Hunter comes out with standard procedures. An alignment of the wheels is not really something that has to be a dealer only item. (Although there are several alignment procedure that are Nissan computer based and that has been the case since 2002.)


Also, most of the cars we lower are lowered anywhere from 1"-2", not .5" This car was lowered roughly 1.5". It is not uncommon for us to have cars that go from .05" or so toe in to toe out.

Front: before After

toe L -.06 .06
R -.10 .07
camber
L -1.28 -1.32
R -1.49 -1.47
Caster
L 4.94 4.77
R 5.20 5.12

Rear
Toe L .07 .11
R .11 .11
Camber
L -1.81 -1.42
R -2.05 -1.50
No kidding that is a pretty significant average drop. Sounds like it could be pretty interesting in your shop some days. The grass sounds more interesting on the other side of the fence some days.

The numbers look good, similar to a new body style M. Are the numbers before after being dropped?
 
#22 ·
Also, most of the cars we lower are lowered anywhere from 1"-2", not .5" This car was lowered roughly 1.5". It is not uncommon for us to have cars that go from .05" or so toe in to toe out. Varies from car to car depending on how much drop and what starting toe was. Unfortunately on this car, I do not have what the toe numbers where before doing the lowering. I assume they were a tad toed in as are most cars. The after lowering toe numbers were L -.06 and R -.10. Not surprising at all for 1.5" drop. We probably lower 2-3 cars a week and align 3-4 cars a day most being lowered. We are more of a performance shop than regular service so lots and lots of lowered cars :)

Someone earlier was wondering if we adjusted camber as well. We did in the rear. Here is some before and after numbers. Only front and rear toe as well as rear camber were adjusted. No provision for camber up front or we would have taken some camber out up there as well.

Front: before After

toe L -.06 .06
R -.10 .07
camber
L -1.28 -1.32
R -1.49 -1.47
Caster
L 4.94 4.77
R 5.20 5.12

Rear
Toe L .07 .11
R .11 .11
Camber
L -1.81 -1.42
R -2.05 -1.50
 
#25 ·
Cant really say since I dont drive the car as much! I just passed 2000 miles and its been almost 6 months since purchase! So far though i dont see any abnormal wear from the outside! I havent checked the inner tires though!

Hope that helps!
 
#28 ·
Haha! Yea! I am just fortunate that work is like 2.5 miles away and the local malls and stores are close by as well! :D
 
#29 ·
Steve, no tone read into it :) The before numbers were after lowering the car but prior to adjusting. Unfortunately no numbers before lowering as we don't put the car on the alignment machine prior to lowering them. We do usually get ride height measurements at each corner before lowering. I say usually because sometimes the guys do forget :)
 
#30 ·
and yes, it gets pretty interesting around here on a daily basis. One has to be able to think outside the box a lot of times. The littlest things we do on a daily basis trip up the guys at the dealerships routinely. Simple things like what type of lug nut best to use and hub rings that don't stick out past the back side of the wheels, etc. The guys at the dealerships only work on stock items for the most part so they are not accustomed to all the pitfalls we run into. It is pretty basic actually but I guess if you are not used to these problem areas, you can get caught off guard real quick. I feel like I am having to pull a rabitt out of a hat at least 2-3 times a week :)

For example. We just did a set of Rohana RC10 wheels on a new 2014 CTS yesterday. Wheels were the correct offset and sizes and bolt pattern. Should have been a simple bolt on. Well, that wheel comes with tuner size lug holes. That is the only model wheel in their lineup that has the small lug holes. There is no reason for it either as they are not dual drilled. Well no problem as I have tuner lug nuts for that reason. Guess what, car has 14mm x 1.5 bolts. The standard small diameter lug nuts we have only go up to 12mm or 1/2" sizes. Well I have tuner style lugnuts for chevy trucks which are 14x1.5. we grab those. They wont fit in the wheel. Now I have a set of wheels that can't be installed because I can't find a lug nut that fits in the hole in the wheel in the correct thread size for the car. So we call our supplier and they have a different type of tuner lug nut that uses the hex key in the center of the lug nut that should fit. So we ordered those and have the dealer bring the car back two days later. Now the lug nuts fit in the hole but since the studs are very long on the car, they won't let the key go into the hole in the center of the lug nut. S we find a different supplier who makes the same style lug nut but is 1/2" longer. Finally problem solved and wheels are on car and rides great. Just takes a lot of work sometimes for the stupidest things.

Mike
 
#34 ·
Lowered mine lately on the new one and evenower than before and havent aligned! No problems at all!

Its been about 1 month already!

interested as well as I'm ready to lower my car with springs (for now) but don't want any issues with DAS after.
No issues on my first build and no issues on my 2nd build

Just ordered Vossen 20" rims for my Q50 and considering lowering it to compete the look. I live in Wisconsin aka winter wonderland. i'll be putting 19" stock rims back on during winter. How much will ride be effected by lowering? Also I AM NOT A MECHANIC so I'm looking for a reputable source to do the work. Dealer in my area doesn't know ish from shinola. Russ
U will always feel the ground a bit more but regular tires over rft kinda compensate for that! The regular tires feel smoother to drive on! Especially my hankook evo v12!
 
#33 ·
Just ordered Vossen 20" rims for my Q50 and considering lowering it to compete the look. I live in Wisconsin aka winter wonderland. i'll be putting 19" stock rims back on during winter. How much will ride be effected by lowering? Also I AM NOT A MECHANIC so I'm looking for a reputable source to do the work. Dealer in my area doesn't know ish from shinola. Russ
 
#38 ·
So I lowered my car last year using RSR Coilovers and DAS has not been a problem.
However, I'm currently at 16K miles and have been told that my front tires need replacement.
I have Hankook tires on my 20" Vossen VFS1 wheels which have only been used for 8k out of the 16k miles on the car (I use stock wheels during the winter).
As per the shop that just did my Force wheel balancing I need to get an alignment because my tires are being worn on the inside edge only.
I took the car to the dealer and the service manager said that he couldn't do the alignment with the vossen wheels on due to the concavity of the rear wheels.
Is it true that they can't perform the wheel alignment with the Vossen wheels on?
Has anyone else experienced unusual wear on their tires after lowering for not doing an alignment?
I rotated my tires after 5k miles and feel like 8k miles is too short a period of time for tires to need replacement, am I wrong?
According to the service manager at the dealer, I need camber arms in order for him to align the rear wheels, is he right?

I would appreciate any input you guys can provide.

TIA
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top