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Toluene is not to be trifled with. If you're planning on using it, don't allow skin contact and mix it in a well-ventilated area.
yes, just as with any other paint thinner or even gasoline. at least use common sense if you dont have gloves handy, wash your hands immediately after handling. even if you dont spill any, its a good idea.
 

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If anyone is familiar with IAM (ignition advance multiplier) in the subie world.

I had a custom tune done and my revision 7 was same as 6 only a little more ignition advance. Rev 6 IAM was pretty happy at 1, Rev 7 he tried to push timing further but my octane limits where tapped so IAM dropped and stayed below 0.7x sometimes as low as 0.5x. I decided to test out boostane. I used only 0.75oz per 1 gallon. IAM never dropped from 1 again. Retested without Boostane later to verify if it was a fluke or bad gas(which I have yet to experience) same results consistently repeated.

typically on a stock car/tune 93octane will be IAM 0.95-1, 92octane 0.85-.9, and 91 octane about 0.7-0.8, so roughly 1 octane per 0.1-0.15 IAM is pretty common.

based on that I would conclude 0.75oz per 1 gallon of gas resulted in at least a 2 octane increase. At least 2+ octane equivalent worth of added timing.

Boostane is supposedly formulated much better to mix with the gas and keep it in suspension preventing separation and settling of the additives like what happens with other products (according to them). I think this combined with how little needs to be mixed the effects on plugs and cats should be minimized.
Boostane probably contains 5-10% MMT according to its MSDS. Boostane claims they use proprietary carriers so the MMT won't settle out of solution but I fail to see how that prevents the combustion by-products of MMT (manganese oxides, mainly Mn3O4) from forming and coating sensors, plugs, and cats. I personally wouldn't use an octane booster that contains MMT. Infiniti specifically states not to use MMT in their vehicles.
 
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Boostane probably contains 5-10% MMT according to its MSDS. Boostane claims they use proprietary carriers so the MMT won't settle out of solution but I fail to see how that prevents the combustion by-products of MMT (manganese oxides, mainly Mn3O4) from forming and coating sensors, plugs, and cats. I personally wouldn't use an octane booster that contains MMT. Infiniti specifically states not to use MMT in their vehicles.
Assuming its 10%,
That would be only 1.5oz of MMT in a 20gallon tank of gas if mixed at the ratio I mentioned.
 

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Assuming its 10%,
That would be only 1.5oz of MMT in a 20gallon tank of mixed at the ratio I mentioned.
And your point is? MMT combustion by-product deposition is cumulative. Here's a spark plug after only 300 miles of MMT usage:
Camera lens Camera accessory Cameras & optics Gas Lens


And after continued use:

Wood Close-up Metal Pipe Auto part



Here's an O2 sensor coated with MMT by-products:

Automotive tire Gas Composite material Engineering Metal


I couldn't find a photo of an MMT-fouled cat but considering how fine the openings are in the internals, one should find similar deposition that could eventually plug the cats over time.

Like I said, I won't ever use an octane booster with MMT in it, but you all can do whatever floats your boat.
 

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And your point is? MMT combustion by-product deposition is cumulative. Here's a spark plug after only 300 miles of MMT usage:


And after continued use:




Here's an O2 sensor coated with MMT by-products:



I couldn't find a photo of an MMT-fouled cat but considering how fine the openings are in the internals, one should find similar deposition that could eventually plug the cats over time.

Like I said, I won't ever use an octane booster with MMT in it, but you all can do whatever floats your boat.
How much MMT on those? What percentage of fuel was MMT? What AFR/boost? what setup?

My personal experience with 0.75oz / gallon of boostane. I used it on 100% of fill ups besides the few breif periods I temporarily switched back to test/validate my results which where quickly made apparent each time so it wasn’t even a 1/4th a tank before adding boostane back on those few occasions, so basically 100% usage for 5k miles.

Got car brand new. Started using boostane at around 3k miles once tune was finalized for FBO/tune, Around 7k miles I went FI with adding a supercharger and continued to use boosting. Around 8k miles I went smaller pulley and added wmi and stopped using boostane, at 10k miles went even smaller pulley again and added E40 in addition to WMI

My car was heavily abused for a street car, my MPG was horrendous so plug wear/tear/life cycle especially with taking an NA engine and adding 13psi on stock plugs should be expected to have been reduced. Probably averaged a solid WOT pull per 1 miles driven.

car ran flawlessly both in feeling/sound as well as datalogs, I could have easily continued to use my plugs but to feed my addiction I swapped to some hks super fire plugs (marketing hype, yeah!)

I didn’t have cats so can’t speak to that, and never inspected 02 sensors but car ran flawlessly for the 14k miles before meeting it’s inevitable fate.

Here where my plugs at 13k
when pulled (pretty drastically different then those 300mile plugs)

Product Household hardware Auto part Technology Wood


I never recommend or advised you or anyone for that matter to use it. Only provided my personal data/testing on the octane increasing benefits I experienced from boostane showing how little was needed to get a noticeable benefit. And now I am providing my personal data/testing of the negative or possibly lack thereof to the spark plugs.

I have had WMI and/or Ethanol on all my builds ever since switching to that on the aforementioned build so I haven’t had a need for octane boosters since.
 

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How much MMT on those? What percentage of fuel was MMT? What AFR/boost? what setup?

My personal experience with 0.75oz / gallon of boostane. I used it on 100% of fill ups besides the few breif periods I temporarily switched back to test/validate my results which where quickly made apparent each time so it wasn’t even a 1/4th a tank before adding boostane back on those few occasions, so basically 100% usage for 5k miles.

Got car brand new. Started using boostane at around 3k miles once tune was finalized for FBO/tune, Around 7k miles I went FI with adding a supercharger and continued to use boosting. Around 8k miles I went smaller pulley and added wmi and stopped using boostane, at 10k miles went even smaller pulley again and added E40 in addition to WMI

My car was heavily abused for a street car, my MPG was horrendous so plug wear/tear/life cycle especially with taking an NA engine and adding 13psi on stock plugs should be expected to have been reduced. Probably averaged a solid WOT pull per 1 miles driven.

car ran flawlessly both in feeling/sound as well as datalogs, I could have easily continued to use my plugs but to feed my addiction I swapped to some hks super fire plugs (marketing hype, yeah!)

I didn’t have cats so can’t speak to that, and never inspected 02 sensors but car ran flawlessly for the 14k miles before meeting it’s inevitable fate.

Here where my plugs at 13k
when pulled (pretty drastically different then those 300mile plugs)

View attachment 109068

I never recommend or advised you or anyone for that matter to use it. Only provided my personal data/testing on the octane increasing benefits I experienced from boostane showing how little was needed to get a noticeable benefit. And now I am providing my personal data/testing of the negative or possibly lack thereof to the spark plugs.

I have had WMI and/or Ethanol on all my builds ever since switching to that on the aforementioned build so I haven’t had a need for octane boosters since.
Different engine, you only used Boostane for 5K miles, have no cats and no inspection of your sensors. I'm not debating MMT's ability to raise octane numbers, just that it has cumulative deposition effects on the engine and the emissions-control components over time. There's plenty of testing done by SAE and others showing the detrimental effects of MMT over time.

When there's acceptable alternatives like toluene, I see no reason to use an organo-metallic compound to boost octane because of its potential to cause deposition problems.
 

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Different engine, you only used Boostane for 5K miles, have no cats and no inspection of your sensors. I'm not debating MMT's ability to raise octane numbers, just that it has cumulative deposition effects on the engine and the emissions-control components over time. There's plenty of testing done by SAE and others showing the detrimental effects of MMT over time.

When there's acceptable alternatives like toluene, I see no reason to use an organo-metallic compound to boost octane because of its potential to cause deposition problems.
Again at what % of fuel? Obviously using more will increase the risk and speed up the timeline of detrimental effects.

MMT is allowed in U.S. gasoline at a level equivalent to 1/32 grams per gallon manganese (gpg Mn).

People say the same type of thing about ethanol yet fuel is commonly 10% ethanol, similarly the poison is in the dose, now what dose of MMT is the poison?

Yes my example is only 5k miles but it is still a stark contrast to the 300 mile example you touted.

1.5oz in 20 gallons is only .05% of total fuel if my maths is correct. I’m sure most examples people are running a much higher concentration and higher total percentage of fuel.

But to each there own. i have provided my personal data and means of testing. People can draw their own conclusions as they see fit. I never injected my own conclusions or opinions only provided my personal experience.

lots more data and testing on boostane all over the internet people can research to their heart’s content.
 
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If anyone is familiar with IAM (ignition advance multiplier) in the subie world.

I had a custom tune done and my revision 7 was same as 6 only a little more ignition advance. Rev 6 IAM was pretty happy at 1, Rev 7 he tried to push timing further but my octane limits where tapped so IAM dropped and stayed below 0.7x sometimes as low as 0.5x. I decided to test out boostane. I used only 0.75oz per 1 gallon. IAM never dropped from 1 again. Retested without Boostane later to verify if it was a fluke or bad gas(which I have yet to experience) same results consistently repeated.

typically on a stock car/tune 93octane will be IAM 0.95-1, 92octane 0.85-.9, and 91 octane about 0.7-0.8, so roughly 1 octane per 0.1-0.15 IAM is pretty common.

based on that I would conclude 0.75oz per 1 gallon of gas resulted in at least a 2 octane increase. At least 2+ octane equivalent worth of added timing.

Boostane is supposedly formulated much better to mix with the gas and keep it in suspension preventing separation and settling of the additives like what happens with other products (according to them). I think this combined with how little needs to be mixed the effects on plugs and cats should be minimized.
arent you glad you dont have to deal with that Subie bullcrud anymore?

Pretty much drive with AP attached and keep an eye on knock, knock learning, DAM.
 
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here's a thread with probably what everyone wants to see, engine internals after using MMT. even though this is a modern hemi head and top end, the results will be the same as all engines work the same way.

of particular note is the build up on the exhaust valves. i think were all aware of build up on plugs and sensors, most ppl dont care that much because theyre relatively easy to swap. the cats can be a concern but i dunno if ive ever seen anyone post a pic of a plugged cat in correlation with octane boosters. but now, what i have just seen is direct proof of build up on exhaust valves and seats, detrimental enough that valve sealing was likely compromised.

starts at post 238. if page 12 doesnt load, look on page 12 of that thread.

i just want to add that octane boosters cost equal to or more than toluene. currently, toluene is 4x less expensive than boostane by weight, contains zero magnesium or anything else, and is a component of gasoline already. if you are willing to use an octane booster, then you should be willing to use toluene instead.

also, i have personal experience with it and also xylene. plugs were clean and the car ran fine. best side effect was that the exhaust smelled cool too, lol.
 
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here's a thread with probably what everyone wants to see, engine internals after using MMT. even though this is a modern hemi head and top end, the results will be the same as all engines work the same way.

of particular note is the build up on the exhaust valves. i think were all aware of build up on plugs and sensors, most ppl dont care that much because theyre relatively easy to swap. the cats can be a concern but i dunno if ive ever seen anyone post a pic of a plugged cat in correlation with octane boosters. but now, what i have just seen is direct proof of build up on exhaust valves and seats, detrimental enough that valve sealing was likely compromised.

starts at post 238. if page 12 doesnt load, look on page 12 of that thread.

i just want to add that octane boosters cost equal to or more than toluene. currently, toluene is 4x less expensive than boostane by weight, contains zero magnesium or anything else, and is a component of gasoline already. if you are willing to use an octane booster, then you should be willing to use toluene instead.

also, i have personal experience with it and also xylene. plugs were clean and the car ran fine. best side effect was that the exhaust smelled cool too, lol.
Lot of people throughout that thread ran boostane with no issues, the one who claimed issues where running a very large amount.

post 238 he is running 32oz of octanium per 15gallon for 10k miles with seemingly no issues, even inspecting plugs/02s. It wasn’t till engine tear down he noticed build up on valves. However hellcats are PI not DI so at least for this platform that portion would probably not be a concern.

also that is still a lot of fuel additives per gallon. and also a different product to boostane (even if both have MMT)

I think we are all aware the risk of MMT, the question is how much % of MMT per gallon of gas and at what rate till potential issues. Does delivery method and the products ability to keep it in suspension and thoroughly mixed evenly throughout the fuel reduce any of the potential risk and/or rate of build up.
 
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Lot of people throughout that thread ran boostane with no issues, the one who claimed issues where running a very large amount.

post 238 he is running 32oz of octanium per 15gallon for 10k miles with seemingly no issues, even inspecting plugs/02s. It wasn’t till engine tear down he noticed build up on valves. However hellcats are PI not DI so at least for this platform that portion would probably not be a concern.

also that is still a lot of fuel additives per gallon. and also a different product to boostane (even if both have MMT)

I think we are all aware the risk of MMT, the question is how much % of MMT per gallon of gas and at what rate till potential issues. Does delivery method and the products ability to keep it in suspension and thoroughly mixed evenly throughout the fuel reduce any of the potential risk and/or rate of build up.
I don't see how keeping MMT in suspension really matters. The MMT decomposes into Mn-based sulfates, phosphates, and oxides which condense onto metal surfaces. Perhaps minimizing fluctuations in the amount of MMT entering the combustion chambers might extend the time before fouling but fouling will occur eventually.

Anecdotal observations in forums are not scientific studies under controlled conditions. The studies I've seen demonstrate MMT does foul plugs, valves, sensors, and cats. I'd be curious as to whether or not an Infiniti dealership would replace cats under the federal emission control warranty if they were plugged with MMT combustion by-products. The warranty states as to what is not covered:

Font Art Pattern Number Brand


The Owner's Manual says:

Font Number Circle


Given as persnickety as Infiniti dealerships seem to be, they would most likely deny any warranty replacement of cats or any other part of the emissions control system they determine is fouled by the use of MMT. The color of the deposition is a dead giveaway of MMT usage.
 
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I don't see how keeping MMT in suspension really matters. The MMT decomposes into Mn-based sulfates, phosphates, and oxides which condense onto metal surfaces. Perhaps minimizing fluctuations in the amount of MMT entering the combustion chambers might extend the time before fouling but fouling will occur eventually.

Anecdotal observations in forums are not scientific studies under controlled conditions. The studies I've seen demonstrate MMT does foul plugs, valves, sensors, and cats. I'd be curious as to whether or not an Infiniti dealership would replace cats under the federal emission control warranty if they were plugged with MMT combustion by-products. The warranty states as to what is not covered:

View attachment 109074

The Owner's Manual says:

View attachment 109075

Given as persnickety as Infiniti dealerships seem to be, they would most likely deny any warranty replacement of cats or any other part of the emissions control system they determine is fouled by the use of MMT. The color of the deposition is a dead giveaway of MMT usage.
It would matter if concentration was a factor.

its like how several plastics or other materials can handle a lower percentage of methanol or ethanol just fine for a very long time but have rapid corrusion and failure once it hits a certain concentration level or percentage of M or E. I image a similar thing would happen with MMT if it settled and “un-mixed” and then you had a much higher concentration at some point in the fuel delivery rather then more evenly distributed throughout the entire supply of fuel.

I’ve seen people have orange plugs/sensors with just a couple bottles but they added a large percentage in terms of total fueling to try to raise octane by 10+ octane. Then people who have ran a 100+ bottles but each was “watered” way down to only have a 2 or so octane bump and never got orange plugs/sensors. The plugs/sensors clearly saw 30-40x or more MMT over it’s lifespan so it’s not just a total accumulation factor as much as any instances of higher concentration factor, so settling/separation would more closing represent the later of the two scenarios.

and again these studies you speak of. What percentage of total fueling was MMT? What was the totaling amount of fueling used?(IE 1,000cc injectors at 80% duty or 500cc at 30% etc… would impact how much MMT at any one instance contacted anything) What other additives where involed or not involed in the testing? At what rate/timeline did the failure occur? What failed? What was the consequences of the failure? 50% shortened life expectancy from plugs/sensors? 90%? 10%?

Warranty? I am the warranty!

Here was a response from a boostane rep when asked (obviously from manufacture so grain of salt, and believe their testing MMT is with the product not specifically MMT)

MMT is one of the active ingredients in our product. However, there are many products out there on the market that will cause the fouling and sensor malfunctions that he post refers to. MMT has not proven to us in all of our years of running and testing to have any affect on diagnostic equipment, cats, or plugs. However, anything can be one of those if not properly utilized or mismanaged. As we have touted from the beginning, our proprietary carrier separates us from the group. By developing a carrier that keeps our active ingredients suspended indefinitely in the solution of BOOSTane, the fuel delivery system is never going to experience fluctuations in concentrations, especially extremely high concentrations due to settling out at the end of a tank, that the rest of the field delivers. That could be why some enthusiasts experience adverse side effects of using additives.”
 

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We can debate this until the cows come home but the bottom line is if there is a safer, less costly octane booster like toluene available, why use a metal-based one that can foul engine components?

I have no need for an octane booster, but if my build required additional octane to avoid pre-detonation, I know which one I would use. Besides, not everyone is aware of the detrimental effects of MMT and knowing both sides of the issue can help them make a responsible choice. That's why I bring it up.
 

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Just to keep the thread moving along - E85 is much cheaper than Premium fuel, Boostane, and/or Toluene and typically I don’t use gloves at the gas pump. 😉
 

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Just to keep the thread moving along - E85 is much cheaper than Premium fuel, Boostane, and/or Toluene and typically I don’t use gloves at the gas pump. 😉
E85 much cheaper? Factor in the cost of all the hardware you installed to run E85.
 
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Ah shucks - busted
 
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We can debate this until the cows come home but the bottom line is if there is a safer, less costly octane booster like toluene available, why use a metal-based one that can foul engine components?
Safer?
until this question is answered we’ll have to agree to disagree
“and again these studies you speak of. What percentage of total fueling was MMT? What was the totaling amount of fueling used?(IE 1,000cc injectors at 80% duty or 500cc at 30% etc… would impact how much MMT at any one instance contacted anything) What other additives where involed or not involed in the testing? At what rate/timeline did the failure occur? What failed? What was the consequences of the failure? 50% shortened life expectancy from plugs/sensors? 90%? 10%?”

Cheaper?
klean strip toluene is about 4-5x the cost to gain the same octane rating compared to boostane.
 

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in the link i provided, the guy used 32oz for 15 gallons of gas, that equates to ~2oz/gal. if he was using 93, if would get him to around 102-3 octane. that mixture is WELL within the recommended guidelines. hell, even if it were mixed with e85 (as i suspect from the past directly after), the mixture used shouldnt matter. to get to 116 octane, boostane recommends 32oz per gallon of gas. thats 16x the amount that the guy in the post used. i can only imagine what an engine would look like using that. the build up on the face of the valves and seats is undeniable (literally, theres pictures) in his engine. the valves werent even fully sealing any longer.

it seems neither of us is going to budge on this. im not denying its effectiveness, im not even saying the deposits on the plugs or o2 sensor even bother me. i do think there are issues with cats in the long term and having seen the valves on that engine only further solidifies to me that burning magnesium as an octane booster isnt a good idea.
 

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in the link i provided, the guy used 32oz for 15 gallons of gas, that equates to ~2oz/gal. if he was using 93, if would get him to around 102-3 octane. that mixture is WELL within the recommended guidelines. hell, even if it were mixed with e85 (as i suspect from the past directly after), the mixture used shouldnt matter. to get to 116 octane, boostane recommends 32oz per gallon of gas. thats 16x the amount that the guy in the post used. i can only imagine what an engine would look like using that. the build up on the face of the valves and seats is undeniable (literally, theres pictures) in his engine. the valves werent even fully sealing any longer.

it seems neither of us is going to budge on this. im not denying its effectiveness, im not even saying the deposits on the plugs or o2 sensor even bother me. i do think there are issues with cats in the long term and having seen the valves on that engine only further solidifies to me that burning magnesium as an octane booster isnt a good idea.
Do you not think the build up on the valves would be much more of an issue for Port injection (his) vs direct injection (OP’s/VR30s)
Also again maybe it’s marketing hype but boostane claims to have solved the issue of maintaining perfect mixture and suspension in the fuel which seems to likely be at least a contributing factor to the MMT build
up which is further amplified by running greater and greater mixtures (2oz/gallon)

Who ever said to use 32oz of boostane?
I said quite the opposite in my posts, no?

1 octane bump typically allows enough added boost/timing to be had to net about 1.5-2% more power. A simple 3 octane increase could easily net close to an additional 25-30whp on a VR30 with proper tuning or roughly equal to ldp+cbe in terms of overall gains. According to boostane mixing charts approx 0.62oz of boostane premium (lower strength than professional) per gallon of gas should net a 3 octane increase. That would be 12.4oz per 20gallons.

Now I do think WMI and/or E85 are much better solution than these “bandaid” boosters. But I do think in moderation, boostane specifically can be used to net some solid benefits/gains for very cheap, easy, and done fairly safely.

That could be having 2 maps 1 for boostane and one without and only use kill mode/boostane on special occasions. Or if you want full tilt 24/7 running boostane all the time, expect to have plugs/02s be on a more frequent change interval maybe 50% life expectancy. But they are easy to change and relatively cheap considering. For people who drive only say 3-5k miles a year that is still not that frequent in terms of overall time/years.

Cats might be my biggest concern agreed (still maybe less with boostane though), But I’m more of a dog person than a cat person myself. ;)
 
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