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This post is intended to help other hybrid owners when their hybrid Lithium Ion batteries start to degrade. This applies to US owners.
At this writing, my Q50 is at 110,000 miles. I am the only owner. Purchased in Oct 2013.
A few months ago, my Q50 threw a P30EF code, meaning P30EF INTERNAL RESISTANCE (When the Li-ion battery internal resistance becomes high.) This indicated a failing battery cell or module. Infiniti dealership confirmed the code. The code came on and off several times over the subsequent months. It was obvious a module or cell in the battery was failing, as the battery HPCM (Hybrid power train control module) started preventing significant hybrid battery discharge, and the car slightly stumbled under light acceleration when switching from battery to gas engine. You can read all about how the system works on page HBB-21 of this document (which is conceptually similar to the Q50 battery system). https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual?fsm_download=M35 M37 M45 M56/M Hybrid/HBB.pdf. The bad part is that at startup, the controller discharges higher capacity cells to keep all cells at the same capacity – this is necessary to maintain voltage balance. So – the working capacity of each cell is only as high as the weakest cell.
How long can you drive with this code coming on and off? I don’t know. But I didn’t want to drive it in this condition for too long. I was worried that one day I’d be stuck on the side of the road.
The following is a review of my considerations to resolve this problem. At the end of the post, you will see I decided to buy a used battery with 3yr warranty installed by Greentec auto. I discuss the install experience and include pictures.
(1) Our battery warranty is 8 yrs / 100K miles. Don't count on an extensions due to state regulations like CARB. They don't apply because the Hyb Q50 is not a PZEV. http://justsmogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/california-smog-emission-warranty.pdf
(2) I called Infiniti Consumer Affairs, stating that it seemed early (8.8 yrs, 107K miles) that my battery was failing. They declined to offer any assistance.
(3) A new battery installed by Infiniti was $16,700 parts, $2100 labor. I assume the part comes with an 8yr /100K mile warranty (didn't ask since I'm not paying almost $20K for a battery+install). I’ve been told it’s a 4.1 hour job, requiring special tools, training, and cones to keep people away from the area. I think the procedure on the Q50 is similar to this 2013 M guide https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual?fsm_download=M35 M37 M45 M56/M Hybrid/HBB.pdf
(3.5) If you are bold, you can try ordering a new battery from Japan ($5700 for the part, no idea on cost to ship). No idea about how you'd work out a warranty issue. Nissan 295B0-4GA9E (295B04GA9E) Nissan 295B0-4GA9E (295B04GA9E)
(4) A used battery from a wrecked vehicle is in the $1000 range. Can buy on Hybrid Lithium Ion Battery Pack 295B04GA9B Fits 2014 2015 2016 Infiniti Q50 OEM | eBay or Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market. But sometimes you won’t know the exact age of the battery or life remaining.
(5) A used battery with warranty (Ace Hybrid Group - check facebook site for deals) is a decent choice, but see #6. But warranty is for parts only. Interestingly, the price goes up by a few thousand for each year you want to extend the warranty. This means they really don’t know how long the battery will last. And as you can see – it’s cheaper to buy 2 batteries than double the warranty. You are paying for labor, which is not covered.
(6) Finding an installer for your own battery is almost impossible. These things have enough power to kill, so it takes special training (or courage). One installer in my area would only install a used battery he purchased – that way I could not gripe later if something went wrong. But the installer would warranty the work (parts and labor). But he could not locate a battery. The other would install my battery with no warranty at all – but the labor was not cheap. Seemed like a risky deal.
(7) You can – but shouldn’t - replace a bad battery module or cell. These things are balanced, and the software will charge/discharge to the capacity of the weakest cell. By now, most of the other cells on a 9 year old battery pack are degraded. Others are likely to fail soon. Furthermore, no one does this kind of work. They replace the whole assembly.
(8) There is one company - greentecauto.com - that offered a good battery policy – it’s a new firm and located in major cities. Hybrid Battery Replacement | Honda & Toyota Hybrid High Voltage Batteries They offered a battery – warranted for 3 yrs and unlimited miles – for 5250 installed. This was the best solution for me. (You won't see an option for a Q50 on their website - I called the one near Nashville and they said they could do the install and sent me a written quote. Very professional).
- - - - - - -
I had Greentecauto (greentecauto.com) install my used battery yesterday at their Nashville facility. Pictures attached. I am happy with the process. Total cost was around $5000 parts, $250 labor. Yup – I know – very expensive. But cheaper than a new car. Parts and install are warrantied for 3 years/unlimited miles… that’s what you are paying for. I have read that it is impossible to fully test if a used cell has internal plate degradation – so the warranty cost probably covers some expected percent of re-installs and still allows Greentec to turn a profit. Install took about 3.5 hours by a single technician. The battery module is about 100 lbs, and he was able to get the unit into the trunk by himself. About 8-10 power connections, 6 or so grounds, and some communication harnesses. The tech ordered two batteries in case something was wrong with the first (see pics of two batteries on a pallet). Good thinking.
The car drives well, I see more discharge on the battery indicator on the dash, and it transitions from battery to gas smoothly on acceleration.
![Motor vehicle Hood Automotive lighting Automotive tire Trunk]()
![Hood Automotive tire Automotive lighting Motor vehicle Vehicle]()
![Hood Motor vehicle Automotive tire Automotive design Trunk]()
![Motor vehicle Automotive tire Material property Wood Automotive exterior]()
![Hood Automotive lighting Vehicle Motor vehicle Bumper]()
![Motor vehicle Asphalt Automotive tire Automotive exterior Engineering]()
![Motor vehicle Hood Automotive tire Automotive design Automotive exterior]()
At this writing, my Q50 is at 110,000 miles. I am the only owner. Purchased in Oct 2013.
A few months ago, my Q50 threw a P30EF code, meaning P30EF INTERNAL RESISTANCE (When the Li-ion battery internal resistance becomes high.) This indicated a failing battery cell or module. Infiniti dealership confirmed the code. The code came on and off several times over the subsequent months. It was obvious a module or cell in the battery was failing, as the battery HPCM (Hybrid power train control module) started preventing significant hybrid battery discharge, and the car slightly stumbled under light acceleration when switching from battery to gas engine. You can read all about how the system works on page HBB-21 of this document (which is conceptually similar to the Q50 battery system). https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual?fsm_download=M35 M37 M45 M56/M Hybrid/HBB.pdf. The bad part is that at startup, the controller discharges higher capacity cells to keep all cells at the same capacity – this is necessary to maintain voltage balance. So – the working capacity of each cell is only as high as the weakest cell.
How long can you drive with this code coming on and off? I don’t know. But I didn’t want to drive it in this condition for too long. I was worried that one day I’d be stuck on the side of the road.
The following is a review of my considerations to resolve this problem. At the end of the post, you will see I decided to buy a used battery with 3yr warranty installed by Greentec auto. I discuss the install experience and include pictures.
(1) Our battery warranty is 8 yrs / 100K miles. Don't count on an extensions due to state regulations like CARB. They don't apply because the Hyb Q50 is not a PZEV. http://justsmogs.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/california-smog-emission-warranty.pdf
(2) I called Infiniti Consumer Affairs, stating that it seemed early (8.8 yrs, 107K miles) that my battery was failing. They declined to offer any assistance.
(3) A new battery installed by Infiniti was $16,700 parts, $2100 labor. I assume the part comes with an 8yr /100K mile warranty (didn't ask since I'm not paying almost $20K for a battery+install). I’ve been told it’s a 4.1 hour job, requiring special tools, training, and cones to keep people away from the area. I think the procedure on the Q50 is similar to this 2013 M guide https://www.nicoclub.com/service-manual?fsm_download=M35 M37 M45 M56/M Hybrid/HBB.pdf
(3.5) If you are bold, you can try ordering a new battery from Japan ($5700 for the part, no idea on cost to ship). No idea about how you'd work out a warranty issue. Nissan 295B0-4GA9E (295B04GA9E) Nissan 295B0-4GA9E (295B04GA9E)
(4) A used battery from a wrecked vehicle is in the $1000 range. Can buy on Hybrid Lithium Ion Battery Pack 295B04GA9B Fits 2014 2015 2016 Infiniti Q50 OEM | eBay or Car-Part.com--Used Auto Parts Market. But sometimes you won’t know the exact age of the battery or life remaining.
(5) A used battery with warranty (Ace Hybrid Group - check facebook site for deals) is a decent choice, but see #6. But warranty is for parts only. Interestingly, the price goes up by a few thousand for each year you want to extend the warranty. This means they really don’t know how long the battery will last. And as you can see – it’s cheaper to buy 2 batteries than double the warranty. You are paying for labor, which is not covered.
(6) Finding an installer for your own battery is almost impossible. These things have enough power to kill, so it takes special training (or courage). One installer in my area would only install a used battery he purchased – that way I could not gripe later if something went wrong. But the installer would warranty the work (parts and labor). But he could not locate a battery. The other would install my battery with no warranty at all – but the labor was not cheap. Seemed like a risky deal.
(7) You can – but shouldn’t - replace a bad battery module or cell. These things are balanced, and the software will charge/discharge to the capacity of the weakest cell. By now, most of the other cells on a 9 year old battery pack are degraded. Others are likely to fail soon. Furthermore, no one does this kind of work. They replace the whole assembly.
(8) There is one company - greentecauto.com - that offered a good battery policy – it’s a new firm and located in major cities. Hybrid Battery Replacement | Honda & Toyota Hybrid High Voltage Batteries They offered a battery – warranted for 3 yrs and unlimited miles – for 5250 installed. This was the best solution for me. (You won't see an option for a Q50 on their website - I called the one near Nashville and they said they could do the install and sent me a written quote. Very professional).
- - - - - - -
I had Greentecauto (greentecauto.com) install my used battery yesterday at their Nashville facility. Pictures attached. I am happy with the process. Total cost was around $5000 parts, $250 labor. Yup – I know – very expensive. But cheaper than a new car. Parts and install are warrantied for 3 years/unlimited miles… that’s what you are paying for. I have read that it is impossible to fully test if a used cell has internal plate degradation – so the warranty cost probably covers some expected percent of re-installs and still allows Greentec to turn a profit. Install took about 3.5 hours by a single technician. The battery module is about 100 lbs, and he was able to get the unit into the trunk by himself. About 8-10 power connections, 6 or so grounds, and some communication harnesses. The tech ordered two batteries in case something was wrong with the first (see pics of two batteries on a pallet). Good thinking.
The car drives well, I see more discharge on the battery indicator on the dash, and it transitions from battery to gas smoothly on acceleration.
