So today I received fantastic news. After going through the dealership to fix the problem and not having any luck... then to Infiniti Consumer Affairs where nothing was rectified... I finally decided to go to the BBB Autoline. I had my arbitration about a month ago. I WON!!!! They will be repurchasing the vehicle. Infiniti is doing a huge disservice to their clientele. I will be posting my judgment and going public. Hopefully everyone who has issues with their predictive lines not appearing in a "timely matter" will have use of this information. More to come!!!!!!!
Predictive Lines!!!
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wow please share the judgement when you get the chance.
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I can see a BBB complaint being filed about the APPS that were promised.....At least they were promised to me from the dealer.
Congrats! Looking forward for more info.
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What were your main problems? My next stop is probably going to be BBB Autoline.
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181 Posts
Hmmmm, so most of the owners can do the same thing? It should get those sleepy Infiniti managers getting worried about their bonuses and fix that damned software and other issues. Having my Q for almost 6 month and nothing else but one lousy update. No love letter, call or anything to let me know I matter. It was different when they smelled my money, everything worked or being worked on and "It is just a matter of a month".... So I trusted them.....
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181 Posts
You're missing the point. It is about something you paid for and it should be functioning the way it was presented to you when buying. And it is more than the lines, you should already know. It is also the adittue of the Infiniti putting their attention to 2015 release leaving us hanging. If you sent your kid to school and pay for lunches, would you be happy that lunch was skipped because principal doesn't give a ****, but your kid would be attending all the classes so it should be ok? More we bend over and accept the ignorance of whoever is handeling this more they will ignore you. Yes, car is good but we paid for more.
If the guy has an option to sell it back, good for him. I think if the option would be given to more people the percentage of returned vehicles would surprise you. (IMO). Now you can crucify me. Hahah. Like VBX.
Predictive Lines - Arbitration Judgment
2014 Q50 Hybrid Sport RWD - navigation package
The issues I was having with my car are as follows:
1. Predictive lines missing from back up, software slow to load
2. Loud blaring noise coming from the interior. (videotaped the incident)
3. Shifting issues-hard jerk
Mind you issue 2 and 3 did not play in the decision of the judgment.
During my arbitration I provided photos and video tape of the incidents. Nissan argued that I turned off the prediction lines in the settings. Luckily I had video proving that the settings were ON and that the lines did not appear. They also pointed out that in the manual if the wheel is not at a slight turn, but in a neutral position, that when you put the car in reverse, the lines will not appear.
The arbitrator decided that he needed to see the car in action so we did a test drive. During the test drive, the arbitrator observed times for software loading varied from 1:20 to 1:46. After starting the vehicle and fully loading the software, the predictive lines never appeared upon initial backup, but would subsequently appear on later backups during that same sequence. If the driver did not wait until the software fully loaded, the predictive lines would not appear during that sequence. There was one instance of the camera not coming on even when the software had fully loaded.
IMPORTANT!!!!!!!
Responding to the arbitrators questions, the manufacturer testified there was no TSB (technical service bulletin) regarding this problem and there had been no recall for this defect. She further testified (Denise Caldwell - representative on behalf on Nissan Motor Company - Infiniti Division) that Infiniti had no "set standard" as to the amount of time required for the software to load, and apologized to the consumer for the " undesirable characteristics of the vehicle.....".
Based on the testimony of the parties, the documents presented at the hearing, and the test drive of the subject vehicle ("the evidence"), I have determined that the concern does exist, and the evidence supports the existence of a defect. In light of the stance of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) on the mandatory installation of backup cameras in new vehicles sold in the United States after 2015 to prevent back up deaths and injury, I deem this nonconformity to be a SAFETY ISSUE, which results in a condition likely to cause serious injury or death.
A reasonable number of repair attempts is presumed to be two or more attempts in the case of a nonconformity which results in a condition likely to cause serious injury, or death. That presumption has been met, and therefore order that the Consumer is entitled to a replacement or repurchase of this vehicle at his option. I further order that written document of the complaint for this condition was recorded at 1,580 miles, and since the consumer was deprived of his vehicle for 15 days for various repairs, the consumer shall not be liable for any reasonable use deduction charges.
Ive decided to take the repurchase. It sucks that Infiniti has opted not to disclose to their consumers that this issue is present on almost all their Q50's that dont have the deluxe technology package (which includes an upgraded back up camera system). I hope this helps everyone. I will make a copy of the official documents and attach in PDF in a future thread. What's more ridiculous to me are owners of the Q50 who've responded to this thread negatively. It has nothing to do with way I drive. Its the principal. We all bought a car that has Standard features on it across the board. We expect them to work all the time. Hence the "standard feature".
2014 Q50 Hybrid Sport RWD - navigation package
The issues I was having with my car are as follows:
1. Predictive lines missing from back up, software slow to load
2. Loud blaring noise coming from the interior. (videotaped the incident)
3. Shifting issues-hard jerk
Mind you issue 2 and 3 did not play in the decision of the judgment.
During my arbitration I provided photos and video tape of the incidents. Nissan argued that I turned off the prediction lines in the settings. Luckily I had video proving that the settings were ON and that the lines did not appear. They also pointed out that in the manual if the wheel is not at a slight turn, but in a neutral position, that when you put the car in reverse, the lines will not appear.
The arbitrator decided that he needed to see the car in action so we did a test drive. During the test drive, the arbitrator observed times for software loading varied from 1:20 to 1:46. After starting the vehicle and fully loading the software, the predictive lines never appeared upon initial backup, but would subsequently appear on later backups during that same sequence. If the driver did not wait until the software fully loaded, the predictive lines would not appear during that sequence. There was one instance of the camera not coming on even when the software had fully loaded.
IMPORTANT!!!!!!!
Responding to the arbitrators questions, the manufacturer testified there was no TSB (technical service bulletin) regarding this problem and there had been no recall for this defect. She further testified (Denise Caldwell - representative on behalf on Nissan Motor Company - Infiniti Division) that Infiniti had no "set standard" as to the amount of time required for the software to load, and apologized to the consumer for the " undesirable characteristics of the vehicle.....".
Based on the testimony of the parties, the documents presented at the hearing, and the test drive of the subject vehicle ("the evidence"), I have determined that the concern does exist, and the evidence supports the existence of a defect. In light of the stance of the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) on the mandatory installation of backup cameras in new vehicles sold in the United States after 2015 to prevent back up deaths and injury, I deem this nonconformity to be a SAFETY ISSUE, which results in a condition likely to cause serious injury or death.
A reasonable number of repair attempts is presumed to be two or more attempts in the case of a nonconformity which results in a condition likely to cause serious injury, or death. That presumption has been met, and therefore order that the Consumer is entitled to a replacement or repurchase of this vehicle at his option. I further order that written document of the complaint for this condition was recorded at 1,580 miles, and since the consumer was deprived of his vehicle for 15 days for various repairs, the consumer shall not be liable for any reasonable use deduction charges.
Ive decided to take the repurchase. It sucks that Infiniti has opted not to disclose to their consumers that this issue is present on almost all their Q50's that dont have the deluxe technology package (which includes an upgraded back up camera system). I hope this helps everyone. I will make a copy of the official documents and attach in PDF in a future thread. What's more ridiculous to me are owners of the Q50 who've responded to this thread negatively. It has nothing to do with way I drive. Its the principal. We all bought a car that has Standard features on it across the board. We expect them to work all the time. Hence the "standard feature".
Mmm, ye pretty much.
This smells like VBX making troll accounts.
Concur.
It seems like a simple software fix should fix the issue.
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1,490 Posts
My Lexus has a backup camera with no lines, of any type. This was by design, in 2008. I have no trouble backing up, and consider the camera, as is, a safety feature.
However, a contract is a contract. We purchased the lines, and the apps, and we should have them, and/or be reimbursed for the loss. Infiniti should be communicating with every owner regarding these missing features, discussing a timetable for repair, and/or possible compensation.
IMHO, one owner with negative feelings is worth ten with positive. Infiniti needs to get off their butts and take this seriously.
However, a contract is a contract. We purchased the lines, and the apps, and we should have them, and/or be reimbursed for the loss. Infiniti should be communicating with every owner regarding these missing features, discussing a timetable for repair, and/or possible compensation.
IMHO, one owner with negative feelings is worth ten with positive. Infiniti needs to get off their butts and take this seriously.
Telling: no TSB, No set time for loading of software.
Sounds like a pretty low bar for performance and acceptance that there is an issue however no plans to fix it.
Easy solution for Infiniti - update the user manual with these two 'characteristics' listed as warnings. Boom, problem solved. . . For Infiniti. Dufus move!!
I don't always agree with this type of approach but someone at Infiniti does have to wake up and see what's going on, maybe this is the only way.
Good, bad or indifferent people are having these dumb, and avoidable, issues with the Q and Infiniti should be embarrassed and much more communicative. Oh, and they should be working on actually solving the problems.
Sounds like a pretty low bar for performance and acceptance that there is an issue however no plans to fix it.
Easy solution for Infiniti - update the user manual with these two 'characteristics' listed as warnings. Boom, problem solved. . . For Infiniti. Dufus move!!
I don't always agree with this type of approach but someone at Infiniti does have to wake up and see what's going on, maybe this is the only way.
Good, bad or indifferent people are having these dumb, and avoidable, issues with the Q and Infiniti should be embarrassed and much more communicative. Oh, and they should be working on actually solving the problems.
No I think you are wrong. I do agree that something as simple as that should be there, I mean they appear correctly on q50's with the around view system. But to compare it to depriving a kid of lunch, yeah I don't think so, more like depriving a kid of study hall or recess. The camera still works so it's not like you can't see behind you with that, all you are missing is a couple of lines that I don't really think help you at all anyways.
I do think Infiniti needs to update their software to fix boot times as well as other issues, but as far as the lines go, they aren't going to prevent accidents anymore then being aware of your surroundings.
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3,125 Posts
Those who have had continuous problems with their cars, have every right to complain. Those who paid for a service, and have not received it, have every right to complain. I couldn't care less about not having the apps, but those who paid for them, and want them, have every right to complain. That being said, the "issue" of not have lines appear when backing up is ridiculous, and another opening for lawyers. This is like the students who need help with their Math classes, thinking that the calculator in their hands(or on their computer) should be able to solve their problems. What many don't "get" is that they never learned the basics, and they are trying to have technology replace their lack of skill. I don't put it all on them, since there are too many in education who think that technology is a great replacement for thinking. It's really amazing to see "the light go on" when I help them to pick up those basics, and the calculator becomes the tool it's supposed to be. My point? If you need lines in a rearview monitor to make you safe when backing up, maybe you should relearn(or learn for the first time), how to back up. Just like a few other issues, I'm sure there will be those who agree with me and those who don't, and I'd bet that it will come down to generational lines again, just like the non-linear braking "issue."
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377 Posts
Looks like the case went more with Lemon Law. BBB just arbitrated whether it falls under Lemon Law or not.
I don't completely agree that the lines not showing up is a safety hazard (if I see any person while backing up, I stop regardless of how far they are, but it is a hazard in that you might ding your car because the lines aren't there), but clearly the arbitrator felt so. The steering issues are probably by far the greater safety issue, but we won't be seeing those until next winter probably.
Congratulations on winning the case.
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181 Posts
I do disagree with you but it doesn't matter. I'm trying to make a point we should get what we paid for and Infiniti should work on the issues. It has nothing to do with the driving skills but with the features we chose this car over the others. That is the reason people pay for optional upgrades over basic car with no technology. There are many other brands of cars having no problems and Infiniti is a huge company with powerful resources. I think they don't care. If the owners just take what was sold to them without demanding the features to be 100% functional the manufacturer will close the book, done deal. If they will get away with it how much they gonna cheat next version to save money?
And please, don't bring the students in it. This car was build for any driver you can imagine, so if someone likes the lines, Pandora app, messages and e-mails, Facebook and other things don't criticize it.
Basically we are talking about the same thing, except it is not just about the lines.
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