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Pure Turbos Have Arrived

10K views 112 replies 13 participants last post by  mr. whistle 
#1 ·
Pure Turbos has set a personal new record for lead time - Ordered on 08/20 and arrived 10/17 - narrowly increasing the lead time record set for my FI CBE by just over a week. Time to line up the swap out... Jotech Motorsports have been my guys for part installs but they are swamped. We'll see if my Infiniti Service Tech has some time available this week to get the turbos swapped, new Z1 urethane engine mounts (thanks EngineeredQ50 for the consult), and a new set of OEM spark plugs (just because he has the engine dropped and why not.) My Specialty Z tune is what's on the car now - I have a base AMS tune file on hand (one that Dan M was starting to work with me on before my passenger side "new" turbo started to whine.)

Stay tuned - the next couple of weeks should be interesting...
 
#31 ·
I need to go back a check which setting tuen on WMI for all Maps - Do you happen to recall?
 
#33 ·
I found the message from Terry B - It is Meth Trigger = 4 (turns on WMI for all Maps based on PSI only)
 
#41 ·
agreed on Trigger = 4, just got this update from Terry yesterday. I run Map 6 with 0 boost stacked on my Ecutek. Headed to R/T Tuning for a WMI map in a few weeks. I’ve also recently installed the Killer Chiller(see that thread for details). So WMI mix may need to go to 75% Meth/25% Water, as my temps drop nicely because of the KC❄👍.
 
#35 ·
Agree that with the JB4 OBD cable attached - that is the best option as the JB4 will use engine speed, throttle, and PSI to control the WMI - with the EcuTek OBD connector attached for logging, I am relegated to only using PSI to trigger WMI; hence the Meth Trigger = 4 (a modified quote that I rediscovered from Terry B months ago...)
 
#37 ·
Well the WM tank is dropping after each pull so it's going somewhere... lol
 
#39 ·
HEET is on the way - Monday I think...

I am toying with the idea of copying your nozzle install vs the BMS pre-intercooler injection point. Re-running the meth lines to equal them out at the T will reduce the bank to bank discrepancy as you had pointed out (not sure if this is even a concern.) The trick is to figure out from Amazon what I need to order - I'm not headed to Lowes for parts with all that is floating about. Do I need to move the intercoolers to get to the coupler? Are you still running the BM5's or did you go with another nozzle size?
 
#40 ·
HEET is on the way - Monday I think...

I am toying with the idea of copying your nozzle install vs the BMS pre-intercooler injection point. Re-running the meth lines to equal them out at the T will reduce the bank to bank discrepancy as you had pointed out (not sure if this is even a concern.) The trick is to figure out from Amazon what I need to order - I'm not headed to Lowes for parts with all that is floating about. Do I need to move the intercoolers to get to the coupler? Are you still running the BM5's or did you go with another nozzle size?
They should stock HEET at your local auto parts store, no? I'm in FL and its always in stock. I'm still running BM5's. You do have to unbolt the intercoolers to slide out the couplers, but you do not have to disconnect any coolant lines so its really not that bad. I think there were 6 or 8 bolts per side. I bought some thin nuts and used blue loctite to ensure that they dont come loose. Buy a spare set of coupler....i think the factory size is 2.25". This way you keep the stock ones unmodified just in case since you'll have to drill a hole into them. You will also have to make a small notch on the outlet of the DS A2W cooler plastic. Just enough so the nozzle has a place to sit when everything is bolted back together.
 
#44 ·
Buy technical grade methanol and make your own boost juice. It's just water and methanol anyway. A lot less expensive.
 
#45 ·
Looks like I will be taking those comments to Amazon 😎
HEET and distilled H2O is easy to obtain -

Does anyone know the volumetric equation for obtaining a 50/50 mix? I recall it’s not an equal volume for each.
 
#46 ·
Looks like I will be taking those comments to Amazon 😎
HEET and distilled H2O is easy to obtain -

Does anyone know the volumetric equation for obtaining a 50/50 mix? I recall it’s not an equal volume for each.
Heet is 99% methanol. Just buy tech grade methanol and make your own.

My advice if you want a true 50-50 mixture of methanol, you need to calculate the amounts on a weight basis, not by volume or it won't be 50-50.

Pure methanol weights 6.6 lbs/gal and water (you should always use distilled) is 8.34 lbs/gal.

So the density of pure methanol is 0.79 that of water so for every volumetric unit of water, you'll need to mix 1.26 (inverse of 0.79) times whatever volume of water you choose.

Example: 16 fluid oz. of water would require about 20.2 fluid oz. of methanol to make a 50-50 mixture.

This is assuming my fading knowledge of chemistry isn't completely gone.
 
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#47 ·
Before you go and break out the bathroom scale.....get the bottle or HEET added to the boost juice BEING CAREFUL BECAUSE GREATER THAN 50/50 CAN BE FLAMMABLE and see if it helps your trims/AFR. Are you definitely switching to my style of WMI?
 
#48 ·
A methanol/water mixture of ≥ 20% methanol is considered flammable. The flash point of pure MEOH is 48°F. The flash point of 25% MEOH is 106°F and 50% MEOH is 81°F. Avoid getting 50% MEOH on your car paint. It can damage paint if left on for a long time.
 
#52 ·
It seems like their setup is with six 3.5gph ProMeth check valve/nozzles. That’s a lot of WM by my math. Most I have ever tried was a pair of PM10’s but I went back to BM7’s and got similar log results w/o the additional WM.
 
#55 ·
The advantage of spraying WMI pre turbo is that is shifts the compressor map to the right, letting you stretch the turbo a little farther. BMS did a pre-turbo injection point because it was easier to design and they could sell the inlets. Spraying where I spray wasn't as easy to install and I had to modify the outlet of the driverside A2W plastic coupler which some are not willing to do.

I've taken info and tips from a couple of specific people in the LS community as there are many more members running WMI going much faster than anyone on this forum, myself included. One in particular is a chemist by day. My turbo LS6 also has WMI with a single M10 nozzle right before the throttle body. Without the WMI, I couldn't run above ~10 psi on a 78mm turbo without picking up knock with low timing. Adding the WMI (regular WWF) lets me see 15 psi+ without a hint of knock. It's not because of the added octane, it's because of dropping combustion temps.

There are 2 benefits to WMI injection. The methanol content acts as an octane booster. So if you're octane limited for the boost/timing you run and temps are under control, running a higher methanol content helps. Water injection's sole purpose in life is to pull heat out of the air charge. The best place to pull the most heat out to prevent knock/pre-ignition is closest to the combustion chamber. You want the WMI to change to a vapor close to or in the combustion chamber. This is the best bang for the buck as it can pull out the most heat. We all know that above XX boost at a given RPM, the stock turbos just produce more heat. Spraying at the turbo inlet isn't great for puling max heat because it has to go through the turbo, intake tract, as well as the A2W intercoolers. Typically this will make the phase change in the intake tract before it gets into the combustion chamber. I believe that we have more of an air charge heat issue than an octane issue, hence the reason that running boost juice hasn't shown gains above regular old -20F WWF. Given that we're running more boost than stock and have undersized turbos, I like the injection point that pulls out the most heat from the combustion chamber as possible to keep knock at bay. Everyone is free to do what they want, but this is why I chose the injection point that I did.
 
#56 ·
The advantage of spraying WMI pre turbo is that is shifts the compressor map to the right, letting you stretch the turbo a little farther. BMS did a pre-turbo injection point because it was easier to design and they could sell the inlets. Spraying where I spray wasn't as easy to install and I had to modify the outlet of the driverside A2W plastic coupler which some are not willing to do.
Are you talking about these silicone nozzle adapters? They are post turbo not pre. Or does BMS sell something else too?

 
#58 ·
A bottle of HEET added to WMI tank - car is running an E-64 fuel blend and running Seb's Map 3 Flex Fuel tune.

Wow! The first batch of logs have been sent his way - nearly 20psi with 18'ish timing, mid/low 11 AFR numbers, and no knock. Those Pure Stage2 turbos just keep wanting more as RPM's climb - big difference over the OEM snails. I will need to seriously look into an LSD for my RWD car and an upgraded means to slow back down. The non-sport breaks on my Premium Q are not up to the task. Good problems to have - come on Black Friday deals for Christmas!!
 
#60 ·
A bottle of HEET added to WMI tank - car is running an E-64 fuel blend and running Seb's Map 3 Flex Fuel tune.

Wow! The first batch of logs have been sent his way - nearly 20psi with 18'ish timing, mid/low 11 AFR numbers, and no knock. Those Pure Stage2 turbos just keep wanting more as RPM's climb - big difference over the OEM snails. I will need to seriously look into an LSD for my RWD car and an upgraded means to slow back down. The non-sport breaks on my Premium Q are not up to the task. Good problems to have - come on Black Friday deals for Christmas!!
The bottle of HEET did the trick then?
 
#61 ·
LOL - It definitely did not hurt! The big question now is how does the EcuTek Flex Fuel Kit enabled Map(s) dynamically adjust to lower IAT & richer AFR than target AFR (due to the added meth)? I'll have to see what Seb comes back with his log analysis.

96535


Does anyone know what is the upper PSI that Pure Stage2's are rated at? My goal is to not get into that range in hopes of keeping the very expensive snails healthy for a long time. At nearly 20 PSI that would have seriously concerned me on the OEM turbos.
 
#63 ·
LOL - It definitely did not hurt! The big question now is how does the EcuTek Flex Fuel Kit enabled Map(s) dynamically adjust to lower IAT & richer AFR than target AFR (due to the added meth)? I'll have to see what Seb comes back with his log analysis.
my last setup was boosted with FF+WMI and tuned with Ecutek. However it was open loop at WOT so you would target a leaner mixture (12.5) and size the nozzle appropriately to acheive the real desired richer AFR (11.5) the WMI was hooked up to a failsafe and if triggered 3.3 degrees of timing was pulled and fuel was added automatically until failsafe was no longer triggered.

However unless your tuner changed it, our car is closed loop at WOT so in theory the ecu should adjust for the added methanol although like ethanol methanol has a different AFR lambda so I’m not entirely sure how it will compensate.

If you Inject pre charge temp sensor (MAP sensor correct me if I'm wrong) ecu will auto adjust for cooler charge temps,
If you inject post CTS it will have no idea and you won’t really gain the benefits of cooler charge temps from a tuning standpoint mostly safety. As the ecu will think thr temps are much hotter then they really are.
 
#65 ·
Pre-EcuTek tune - just the JB4/WMI - I would see a much lower AFR when I upped the WM volume. Post-EcuTek tune the impact of the WM volume on AFR numbers is less pronounced. Perhaps the EcuTek tune handles the added WM volume differently than the stock tune + JB4.
 
#66 ·
It’s probably because on pump gas the % of added fuel from WMI is much larger, say 5 parts gas to 1 part methanol. now with E85 needing to be roughly 35% richer the added methanol is a lower % of total fuel, say 6.75 parts ethanol gas to 1 part methanol.
You could test this by running pump (91-93) gas and see if your WMI enrichens your AFR more compared to when running ethanol.
 
#67 ·
I agree that the Ecutek tune is likely modifying tables that the stock tune wasn't adjusting for as much. E85 is also a much slower burn and really doesn't care about IATs as it is a cooler burn itself....seriously I know people in the 800whp+ range with 25 psi and no intercooler and see IATs of over 200 degrees with no knock. The WMI with 93 having a lower octane and more heat prone is seeing a larger AFR impact from the WMI.
 
#68 ·
That makes perfect sense based on what Seb and I were tracking on Map 1 (93 E-10 only) logs. My car seems to be more prone to knock than others w/o WMI seems to be the consensus. Once we moved up to Map 2 (93 E-10 + WMI) Seb could up the boost and timing significantly. However, the AFR numbers were not rising with the additional WM like they had pre-EcuTek (hence the earlier concerns and addition of HEET to the Boost Juice.)

Map 3 (Flex Fuel + WMI) logs today didn't seem to show the impact of the WMI; however I also have never seen a set of logs with those AFR/Timing/Boost numbers before... impressive results.:cool:
 
#70 ·
Another Seb update - "increased multiplier on the ethanol" - the car is really moving!

96551
 
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#71 ·
That's some kind of data log!!!
 
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#72 ·
It's just taking the excel and uploading it to datazap for visualization. You can do the same with a jb4 log. Very useful.
 
#74 ·
Sure can’t get timing like that with JB4. Would be nice to have knock retard data on JB4, seems like pertinent data when you’re increasing boost for sure.
 
#75 ·
Another Seb update - "increased boost (1.5bar) and a fueling change to idle" - unbelievable pull that keeps wanting to pull up top (the Pure Stage2's definitely feel stronger at high RPM vs the OEM snails.) We maybe getting close to a dyno run to see what kind of numbers these logs represent...

96565
 
#76 ·
This pull's log (graph) represents the best (so far?) my car has felt - I am out of on-ramp too soon - a nice problem to have. Seb has the Pure Stage2's up to 20-21psi with this tune.
96647
 
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