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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Yesterday got to drive a Q50 AWD Sport loaded with everything. I currently drive a G37 AWD with Sport and the Tech package. I drove about 5 miles mostly on 2 lane highway at 45 to 55. Also got to drive through a curvy back-and-forth section at about 30 to 40 that tested the handling and steering. I drove it in my car too.


Ride: I found the ride and road noise to be much better than my G37 sport. It was an amazingly smooth ride. There were plenty of bumps and uneven road and it all seemed to feel smooth. The handling was firm and flat and as good as or better than my G37 sport, but as noted below not as connected because of the steering feel. The car handled fabulously through the curvy section, as flat as I like and solid. In cabin quietness was far better than the G and probably the M. It was very enjoyable to drive. The highway miles seemed effortless.

Power: I felt like it was slower and had less power responsiveness than my G37. I would say it did not feel as quick and nimble. That does not quite make sense to me give it’s the same powertrain, but that is my feeling. It was acceptable. Not sure how the throttle was configured but I was in normal or sport, never eco.

Steering: I ran mostly with the middle Standard Normal settings. It felt ...ahhh... normal most of the time, but somewhat numb and not as connected and not as good as my G steering. More like a luxury car than sport. It could be that it was smoother because there is no physical connection, and that made it not feel as connected. Motorweek said something similar about the BMW M6 and its steering. That you were making inputs and a long for the ride. For all the money put into this system it does not seem worth it to end up with it feeling about the same or numb.
For the curvy section I set it to Heavy-Quick. I did not feel much difference from Standard. What I did feel was some weird feedback. In a constant radius turn the steering suddenly kicked back against my hand, but the car held the turn radius. It was a weird feeling of the steering wheel doing something that did not agree with what I saw or felt the car doing. That concerns me. They should have bundled DAS with the Tech package that needs it and not the Deluxe pkg. I want the G37s steering feel.

Interior: Overall feel was of much better than the G. Like the new gauges, they are an improvement especially the center panel being in color and not LCD. Did not get to see how it works with GPS and a route. Flipping thu the center pages was easier with the page buttons moved to the wheel. The steering wheel buttons felt a little cheap, obviously painted plastic and did not give impression of solid high quality. it possible the paint will rub off the buttons with use.

Seating: Not sure if I loved the new sport seats. They were good, but maybe needed more bottom support. Nicer leather but lighter thinner feeling then the G seats. Initially they felt great but over the 15 minutes in the car they did not blow me away. My wife did not like them at all, likes even less than the G37 sport seats. She left it that she seldom rides in my car so I can get what I want. I would prefer she liked to riding in my car. So that adds up to a negative on seating. I would need to sit in them for an half an hour to be sure I liked them. I would suggest you do the same, take 30 minutes to test the tech and sit in the seat.

Tech: It is impressive. I let the car drive it self and it tracked straight road and a gentle corner very nicely. I guess I would use it to entertain myself and watch the car drive. Off cruise-control and approaching a slower vehicle it kicked in a slowed the Q. I have not rear ended any one in 30+ years of driving, but I think the safety stuff is probably a good thing. I use my ACC all the time. I could see always turning on all the safeties and ACC when trying to do something with the panel or nav. I am a pilot and very used to using an autopilot while focusing on nav.

I played just a little with the lower screen in setting the steering. It seemed plenty quick. I should have done more. The Nav was not functional at all. Did not try the stereo, had it off to hear the car.

Overall I think Infiniti has a winner on its hands. The car looks great, looks great inside, quiet, powerful, very cool gadgets. Only in 6 months will we really know if the quality is there and the new tech works.

I’m on the fence about buying a Q50 now due the steering, seating and …. with all this new technology I think the prudent thing to do is to wait and see how this stuff really works in the real world. The dealer wants the $54,000 MSRP and can’t deliver Monday. He decided to do his demo cars first.
Today I tested a Lexus GS350 loaded with the Luxury package and best audio, MSRP $62,000. The 1st deal they offered was $57,000 (price of a premium GS) and same trade for my car. It had 20 miles on it and the colors I want. So for +$3000 over Q50xs Tech I get the luxury GS350 and what I think is better value with better future resale. The Luxury has the F-Sport electric adaptive suspension system Sport S+ mode and a luxury analine leather version of the sport seat with thigh extend and bolster adjust. I can’t image a seat getting much better and it’s cooled. The S+ mode did feel like a firmer ride but I don’t think it handled any better. The handling was vague / rollie, power ok. Compared to the Q50 the Lexus cabin feels much higher quality and has many cool features. It has an amazingly large 12.3” video screen …. but the BIG DOWNSIDE the Enform software and mouse controller (CNet “it’s a disaster”). While I wonder about the new Infinit tech… I know the Lexus tech is a problem in need of fixing. a GS is a move to luxury and a sleepy comfy ride, which I think I can live with for 3 years. Several neighbors have an ES and have bought a 2nd one. I’ll try the F-Sport GS on Monday and Q50 again.

But I am drifting……I think I could be happy in a Q50 (if seats ok for 30 mins). Just not sure now is the time, and if it’s a good value selling at $54,000 loaded. Disappointed in the DA steering, power seems off a bit, love the ride and handling and interior quite, interior comfort not sure, disappointed it has lost some of what makes me feel good to drive a G. For +$3000 I can get a Lexus and be disappointed in the steering and power, but have far more luxury. After the Q50 drive, M37 drive, GS350 drives, when I get back into my G37xs I really like the steering, handling and power, it feels quick, balanced and agile, so waiting is an option.
 

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For the curvy section I set it to Heavy-Quick. I did not feel much difference from Standard.


The reason you felt no difference from Standard is because there was no difference. Your adjustments to the Steering settings are only applicable to the PERSONAL drive mode setting. If you remained in Standard or Sport, you would have felt absolutely no difference in steering, because it only changes your steering to the PERSONAL driving mode.

Nice review by the way...You need to go test drive the Hybrid version with 360 hp, and 400+ torque.
 

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Isn't it fascinating how, once the rough edges the press always complains about get rounded off, the car doesn't "feel like a G" anymore? Cabin is alot quieter, higher quality materials everywhere, smoother idle, better seats and damped steering wheel feedback all adds up to "not another G37", and I think that's what they were shooting for.

Decent review and interesting to see yet another person saying the sport seats feel flat. I didn't notice this in the normal seats, and I've test driven twice.
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Are you intentionally honing in on either the GS350 or the Q50? Are there no other cars that you're curious about at the moment?
The Q50 was tops on my list and the new one appears to be awesome is ...almost... every way. If I want more car in a mid sized luxury sport sedan for my $50 to $60k I think that leaves M37 and GS350, unless I go German or American and I don't want to.

I've driven a 2014 Merc E350 Luxury and it was very nice but the tech is poor. Wish I drove the Sport. I've driven BMW 328 and its too slow, inside not luxury. The 335 was nicely engaging to drive, seating felt nice, tech poor. I like Acura and have owned 4 but they've got nuttin I want right now. Have not driven Audi A6 as I am scared of their quality, I don't like the idea of a turbo 6.

I tried the Infiniti M37 and it was very nice. Interior is better than Q50 in high quality feel. The nav and technology are dated, but they are the same as the G I am used to, functional and just fine. I liked the M sport better and the ride was fine, but there is a a lot of road noise that I don't I want. The feeling of the road stripes is absorbed but you hear them. Very disappointing. So that leaves premium and the handling is vague, but no worse than GS350. The Q50 buying experience has left me displeased with Infiniti so I'm willing to try others.

So at this momemt the GS350 is on the short list. For the +$3000 I feel the interior upgrades are big. It would be a change to luxury, quite and a relaxing but numb experience. I lose the cool technology of the Q50.

I'm likely to keep driving my G. Its only got 40k miles. I really enjoy the drive. I'd like a new drivers seat so I need to look into that.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Isn't it fascinating how, once the rough edges the press always complains about get rounded off, the car doesn't "feel like a G" anymore? Cabin is alot quieter, higher quality materials everywhere, smoother idle, better seats and damped steering wheel feedback all adds up to "not another G37", and I think that's what they were shooting for.

Decent review and interesting to see yet another person saying the sport seats feel flat. I didn't notice this in the normal seats, and I've test driven twice.
I think the guy at Automobile Mag summed it up well as: "Infiniti is gambling that it can retain the enthusiasts it has so carefully cultivated over the past decade even as it chases luxury car buyers who are all too happy to find other things to do with their hands than grip the steering wheel."

I bought the G37 sport because the acceleration and handling made my heart pound and put a big smile on my face, but it was still a very reasonable 4 door sedan that is a big step up in luxury from something like a Maxima.

You're right that the new Q50 has fixed about everything that was a negative in the G. But the steering did not need fixing .... for the enthusiast... maybe it does for the luxury market.

I think the real need for the DAS is with the Tech package autopilot, but they made it part of the Deluxe package. I think they did that because the will sell a lot of the Deluxe model and that will get their new steering a lot of consumer testing. Hopefully in 2015 the DAS will move into the Tech package. For me they need a Sport that can be loaded but without the DAS, maybe that will be the IPL Q50.

For the enthusiast I think the best move now is to wait and see.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
Your adjustments to the Steering settings are only applicable to the PERSONAL drive mode setting. If you remained in Standard or Sport, you would have felt absolutely no difference in steering, because it only changes your steering to the PERSONAL driving mode.
My first reaction was "that can't be right" but I guess it makes sense that "Standard" will be the same in any Q50 you get into. They really need Personal 1 and Personal 2 so you can have a custom Standard and a Custom Sport. Nikon's newer DSLRs have U1 and U2 to allow 2 user configurations.

I was wondering if the lesser performance was due to some throttle settings being changed but since I was never in Personal mode it was the preprogrammed Standard or Sport.

Thanks for the info, it will help me on my next test.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Interesting review. I really enjoyed reading it
I was just going to write a few comments about likes and dislikes but as I wrote it helped focus my thinking, so I kept writing more.

What airplane/airline you're flying?

I'm a private pilot with an IFR rating and fly Pipers. It a great challenge both mental and physical. I would tell anyone to take 10 hours and get close to solo. To solo you need a medical and written test (I think).
 

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The Q50 was tops on my list and the new one appears to be awesome is ...almost... every way. If I want more car in a mid sized luxury sport sedan for my $50 to $60k I think that leaves M37 and GS350, unless I go German or American and I don't want to.

I've driven a 2014 Merc E350 Luxury and it was very nice but the tech is poor. Wish I drove the Sport. I've driven BMW 328 and its too slow, inside not luxury. The 335 was nicely engaging to drive, seating felt nice, tech poor. I like Acura and have owned 4 but they've got nuttin I want right now. Have not driven Audi A6 as I am scared of their quality, I don't like the idea of a turbo 6.

I tried the Infiniti M37 and it was very nice. Interior is better than Q50 in high quality feel. The nav and technology are dated, but they are the same as the G I am used to, functional and just fine. I liked the M sport better and the ride was fine, but there is a a lot of road noise that I don't I want. The feeling of the road stripes is absorbed but you hear them. Very disappointing. So that leaves premium and the handling is vague, but no worse than GS350. The Q50 buying experience has left me displeased with Infiniti so I'm willing to try others.

So at this momemt the GS350 is on the short list. For the +$3000 I feel the interior upgrades are big. It would be a change to luxury, quite and a relaxing but numb experience. I lose the cool technology of the Q50.

I'm likely to keep driving my G. Its only got 40k miles. I really enjoy the drive. I'd like a new drivers seat so I need to look into that.

I drove the GS F Sport and it's a nice car. I wouldn't say the interior is better quality than the Q in most areas, but definitely in some. As for the ride, the F Sport in S+ mode is stiff and fun however, it's a big car. Eventhough it is almost identical in dimensions to the Q, it feels quite a bit larger. Now that could be because it's slightly wider than the Q, but it feels big to me. The only other thing I didn't like about the GS is the dash. While it has that large screen it looks dated and the center console doesn't flow down the center like a cockpit feeling. Other than that, I liked it and the F Sport is the way to go if you go that route.
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
I drove the GS F Sport and it's a nice car. I wouldn't say the interior is better quality than the Q in most areas, but definitely in some. As for the ride, the F Sport in S+ mode is stiff and fun however, it's a big car. Eventhough it is almost identical in dimensions to the Q, it feels quite a bit larger. Now that could be because it's slightly wider than the Q, but it feels big to me. The only other thing I didn't like about the GS is the dash. While it has that large screen it looks dated and the center console doesn't flow down the center like a cockpit feeling. Other than that, I liked it and the F Sport is the way to go if you go that route.
I agree with all that. The Luxury does have a better analine seat leather than the F and 2 more seat adjusts. The dash grew on me as I spent more time in it, I like the wood of the lux. I think the BMWs have a similar dash, Audi close but better, I like Lexus ok.

Over at ClubLexus .com a post was saying that sales are down and dealers are discounting. The TrueCar graph shows price dropping fast to $58,500. First offer of $57,000 for $61,582 MRSP is the low price seen in June of $900 below Invoice.

The pictures and sitting in it make me want that interior for $3000 more than Q50, love the flaxen leather color. The loosy-goosy drive not so much. I probably will spend a lot of time just sitting it in trying to figure out the malformed Enform system.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Friday I made my second test drive of Q50 AWD Sport + Tech. The software was updated since my last time. I did the same route plus added some twisty and highway miles. I was more careful to monitor the exact driving mode.

Steering: This time I found the steering to feel wonderful, nothing weird, better than the electric power steering I’ve tried. Maybe the software update helped. In Sport it had a great firm connected feel. I think you always get Heavy + Quick in Sport. In Normal drive mode again the steering felt just right for me, lighter but still connected. One nice thing is in Sport mode I think if you are going very slow it kind of changes to Normal. I was crawling through a parking lot at idle and turned and the effort felt normal and not heavy. I think that’s a good thing. I still am concerned about this being all new and possible problems, only time will reveal.

Sport suspension ride was the same, amazingly nice and quiet, nothing harsh. The car turns quick, stays flat and goes where you point it. The Sport model would be my pick. Performance seemed the same, a bit less than the G37. But engine was smoother and quieter.

Electronics: I played with the lower screen and found it to be very responsive, no complaints. Salesman said that had improved boot time. Very disappointing that they did not finish the apps. That’s part of what made me say no now.

Seating: This time I sat in the seat for 25+ minutes with driving and playing. I did _not_ love it, as time passed liked it less. Based on my short sit I don’t think I would be comfy in it for an hour. Would need to spend more time in it before I buy, there’s plenty to do to keep busy that long. I'd say its good, not great, I may like my G37 seat better.

I decided _not_ to buy the Q50 at this time. I’m not sure about the seat and feel I may really not like it, my wife doesn’t. I want a higher end interior. I also think I would wait 3 months and see how the new Q50 design shakes out. The Q50 AWD Sport Tech is $54,000. I think for under $60k I can get the high end but will give up tech and sportiness. The Manager did offer me $1000 off MSRP, previous offer was free floor and trunk mats.

I liked the M37 and favor it over the Lexus GS350. I liked the M37 Sport more and found the ride acceptable but the tires make a lot of noise. Liked the Touring package Forest Air. Looking at the M gauges is disappointing compared to Q50, but the feel of the interior is much better. I have not tried the GS F-Sport, the GS Enform system seems an enormous negative.
 

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I agree with all that. The Luxury does have a better analine seat leather than the F and 2 more seat adjusts. The dash grew on me as I spent more time in it, I like the wood of the lux. I think the BMWs have a similar dash, Audi close but better, I like Lexus ok.

Over at ClubLexus .com a post was saying that sales are down and dealers are discounting. The TrueCar graph shows price dropping fast to $58,500. First offer of $57,000 for $61,582 MRSP is the low price seen in June of $900 below Invoice.

The pictures and sitting in it make me want that interior for $3000 more than Q50, love the flaxen leather color. The loosy-goosy drive not so much. I probably will spend a lot of time just sitting it in trying to figure out the malformed Enform system.

I have the 2013 Lexus GS350 lux model and I have to say that overall I'm a bit disappointed with it. As for the pros, the seats are super comfortable and have a gazillion adjustments for driver and passenger. The fit and finish are great. It is super quiet inside and in the highway. Now for the cons...the ride is a bit too loose for my taste especially around corners....and even in sport+ mode the ride is very artificial including the steering. ..the engine is a dated engine they took from the Lex Is350 and lacks power....the car feels very heavy and does not corner well at all. It has a smallish gas tank at 17 gallons. Not a fan of the mouse controller either. Bring back the buttons!

I'm trading it for the Q50. I know there are features I will miss, but I think I will like the Infiniti better.
 

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I have the 2013 Lexus GS350 lux model and I have to say that overall I'm a bit disappointed with it. As for the pros, the seats are super comfortable and have a gazillion adjustments for driver and passenger. The fit and finish are great. It is super quiet inside and in the highway. Now for the cons...the ride is a bit too loose for my taste especially around corners....and even in sport+ mode the ride is very artificial including the steering. ..the engine is a dated engine they took from the Lex Is350 and lacks power....the car feels very heavy and does not corner well at all. It has a smallish gas tank at 17 gallons. Not a fan of the mouse controller either. Bring back the buttons!

I'm trading it for the Q50. I know there are features I will miss, but I think I will like the Infiniti better.
I had the same exact same car for a month when it first came out, I agree with everything you said except the seats. In fact as much as I HATED the mouse and Enform system, the main reason I got rid of the car was how uncomfortable I found the seats. I have a slipped disc and 99% of the time I have absolutely no back pain, but I was in pain every day I owned the GS.
 

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I have the 2013 Lexus GS350 lux model and I have to say that overall I'm a bit disappointed with it. As for the pros, the seats are super comfortable and have a gazillion adjustments for driver and passenger. The fit and finish are great. It is super quiet inside and in the highway. Now for the cons...the ride is a bit too loose for my taste especially around corners....and even in sport+ mode the ride is very artificial including the steering. ..the engine is a dated engine they took from the Lex Is350 and lacks power....the car feels very heavy and does not corner well at all. It has a smallish gas tank at 17 gallons. Not a fan of the mouse controller either. Bring back the buttons!

I'm trading it for the Q50. I know there are features I will miss, but I think I will like the Infiniti better.
I agree with everything you said. I loved everything about the GS350 except for its performance. Despite the GS350 not really being all that heavy, the GS was obviously tuned more for comfort and ride quality and even in the F-Sport package, it still felt heavy.

I know this will sound a bit douch-ey, but did you really do enough test driving prior to buying the Lexus? I just feel kinda bad about people buying/pre-ordering cars without doing adequate testing and then they find themselves unsatisfied.

It sounds like you haven't tested the Q50 yet either but you've already made up your mind about the trade. Listen, don't take test drives lightly! They can be hugely helpful!! I'd hate to see you get inside a Q50 and find out that's it's not your cup of tea after the fact.
 

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I test drove the GS350 F Sport and I thought it handled rather well, much better than I thought it would for a big car. It's not too heavy, in fact it's the same curb weight as the Q50 RWD. My issue was that it felt big. As for the motor, it was adequate but for a larger car should have more horsepower.
 

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I have the 2013 Lexus GS350 lux model and I have to say that overall I'm a bit disappointed with it. As for the pros, the seats are super comfortable and have a gazillion adjustments for driver and passenger. The fit and finish are great. It is super quiet inside and in the highway. Now for the cons...the ride is a bit too loose for my taste especially around corners....and even in sport+ mode the ride is very artificial including the steering. ..the engine is a dated engine they took from the Lex Is350 and lacks power....the car feels very heavy and does not corner well at all. It has a smallish gas tank at 17 gallons. Not a fan of the mouse controller either. Bring back the buttons!

I'm trading it for the Q50. I know there are features I will miss, but I think I will like the Infiniti better.
I test drove the GS350 F Sport and I thought it handled rather well, much better than I thought it would for a big car. It's not too heavy, in fact it's the same curb weight as the Q50 RWD. My issue was that it felt big. As for the motor, it was adequate but for a larger car should have more horsepower.
The GS definitely won't be as fun to drive as the Q50. BUT, if you're trading in the GS350 for better feedback/road feel, you'll be very disappointed. The GS actually has better road feel, even though it drives like a bigger car. The Q for sure drives like a nimbler and more responsive car (faster too), but again I feel the DAS really disconnected the steering from the road. I would echo Simpsontide and test drive it again before pulling the trigger on anything. Try playing around with the DAS settings if you can too.
 

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You're right that the new Q50 has fixed about everything that was a negative in the G. But the steering did not need fixing .... for the enthusiast... maybe it does for the luxury market.

I think the real need for the DAS is with the Tech package autopilot, but they made it part of the Deluxe package. I think they did that because the will sell a lot of the Deluxe model and that will get their new steering a lot of consumer testing. Hopefully in 2015 the DAS will move into the Tech package

It was a weird feeling of the steering wheel doing something that did not agree with what I saw or felt the car doing. That concerns me. They should have bundled DAS with the Tech package that needs it and not the Deluxe pkg. I want the G37s steering feel.

I think the guy at Automobile Mag summed it up well as: "Infiniti is gambling that it can retain the enthusiasts it has so carefully cultivated over the past decade even as it chases luxury car buyers who are all too happy to find other things to do with their hands than grip the steering wheel."



Interalia is saying exactly what I think. The DAS seems more like it should be a feature on a Lexus and certainly not part of the deluxe touring package on an Infiniti. Unfortunately the lease on my G37 is up at the end of the year so I can't wait for 2015 to see if Infiniti "unlinks" the DAS from that package. I was ready to buy the Q50 but now I am looking at other cars. A sports sedan should not have vague steering.
 

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Interalia is saying exactly what I think. The DAS seems more like it should be a feature on a Lexus and certainly not part of the deluxe touring package on an Infiniti. Unfortunately the lease on my G37 is up at the end of the year so I can't wait for 2015 to see if Infiniti "unlinks" the DAS from that package. I was ready to buy the Q50 but now I am looking at other cars. A sports sedan should not have vague steering.
I am just assuming here but maybe with the DAS future updates may allow more customization (unlimited?) and add road feel if desired? It's just software and can be updated in the future vs a fixed drive shaft that will always be the way it is. I guess it's all how you look at it.

One of my friends with a new Cobra loved driving my car in sport mode and had no idea that it was steer-by-wire until I told him.
 
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