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I think the demand will outstrip the supply for the first year and dealers will be asking at least 10K over MSRP.
 

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It will be interesting to see what the HP rating will be for the Z. I think 425 Crank HP.
 

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Don't need to sell me on the idea of EV's I'm all for them I'm actually writing this from a Fuel Cell R&D facility. ;)

The only real show stopper up here is how cold it gets you end up with nearly half your normal range which is drained further while the car is sitting.
So I need something that will manage about 500KM on a charge (250km freezing temps) so I have a nice buffer of range if I need to make some
emergency trips and I'm not screwed if the battery degrades after a couple of years.

Currently the only automaker that fits that bill and sells something that isn't a Cross-Over is Tesla who I don't trust to hold
up in our winters, my buddy just picked up a model 3 so I'm waiting to see how his experience with it is. Hah
I have a long relationship with a Ford Truck only dealership. Because of their experience with alternate fueled vehicles they decided to sign up for EVs. They received a pre-release example of a Ford Mustang Mach-E. If it has flared fenders it is a truck so that's how that works. Also an F-150 EV with 563HP is on the horizon. I got a call from the owner asking if I would like to try out the Mustang.

I spent an afternoon with it in February. It never got above 5°F that day. It is supposed to have a 275 mile range. I got in the car and noted the battery was fully charged yet showed only 187 miles range. When my son was taking a turn at the wheel I found a screen that showed where the energy was going. A full 40% of it was to heat the cabin to 66°. Another 4% to drivetrain. I assume keeping the battery warm. So, yes cold weather has a big effect. Most if not all of these EVs including the Leaf have hybrid climate control systems. They use a heat pump for efficiency. When the temps get very low the heater switches to an electrical resistance system. I'm not sure at what point that kicks in but I'm sure it was active at 5°F. So yes very cold weather affects range. I don't believe cold affects it when it is idle in your garage. The Tesla for example, prefers to be always plugged in. You can schedule your departure time and it will condition the battery and warm the cabin using the charger and not affecting the battery range for that process.

That Mustang was an impressive first attempt for Ford but I took a pass. It rode like a truck. Because it is a truck. Also the front suspension was thumpy/noisy on rough roads. I could have got the employee discount (they could finagle that) and the $7500 tax credit to make it cheaper than the Tesla but again, I would have to be blown away to justify that money considering my current driving habits.

That Tesla model Y that my son bought 10 days later just puts that Mustang to shame however. Like something out of science fiction. And the seats! I wound up with the Leaf because I could not justify $50K for something I might drive 8K miles per year. With discounts, incentives and tax breaks I got the Leaf for little more than half the amount. Also like you, I'm not totally comfortable with Tesla as a company. I prefer a long time established manufacturer with a large dealer service network among other things. His purchase experience was good though. All online. Negotiated the purchase, trade and financing all in 30 minutes. Since Tesla cannot yet sell in Wisconsin (franchise laws) he had to drive the 70 miles to Highland Park, IL to pick it up. However, there is a service center less than 15 miles from his home.
 

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What dumbass at Ford decided to bastardize the name Mustang with this completely separate vehicle category. Probably the same guy who came up with the idea for the new Coke formula!
 

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Don't need to sell me on the idea of EV's I'm all for them I'm actually writing this from a Fuel Cell R&D facility. ;)

The only real show stopper up here is how cold it gets you end up with nearly half your normal range which is drained further while the car is sitting.
So I need something that will manage about 500KM on a charge (250km freezing temps) so I have a nice buffer of range if I need to make some
emergency trips and I'm not screwed if the battery degrades after a couple of years.

Currently the only automaker that fits that bill and sells something that isn't a Cross-Over is Tesla who I don't trust to hold
up in our winters, my buddy just picked up a model 3 so I'm waiting to see how his experience with it is. Hah
I forgot to address your Fuel Cell issue. I think that would be an awesome solution. I'm all in favor of that but there are big problems with delivery and storage to overcome. As you know Hydrogen doesn't like being held captive. An array of solar panels generating electricity to crack the hydrogen is one solution. I am waiting for a mini cold fusion nuclear reactor buried in my back yard to do the job. I'm pretty sure I won't see that in what's left of my lifetime.

Of course, auto racing will lead the way in new technologies. As always.

 

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2018 Q50 Red Sport 400 AWD
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I can't imagine your average idiot that walks the face of this planet handling hydrogen.
 

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Nissan steps in and tells dealerships no markup..... Yeah that would never happen I'm saying 12k.
I think the demand will outstrip the supply for the first year and dealers will be asking at least 10K over MSRP.
For sure. I remember when Honda dealerships ridiculously marked up type-r prices. Now dealerships around us are more willing to negotiate lower than MSRP.
 

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I forgot to address your Fuel Cell issue. I think that would be an awesome solution. I'm all in favor of that but there are big problems with delivery and storage to overcome. As you know Hydrogen doesn't like being held captive. An array of solar panels generating electricity to crack the hydrogen is one solution. I am waiting for a mini cold fusion nuclear reactor buried in my back yard to do the job. I'm pretty sure I won't see that in what's left of my lifetime.

Of course, auto racing will lead the way in new technologies. As always.

Oh hah my issues was with regular BEVs, was just saying I worked with a company that handles Fuel Cell R&D and am totally behind alternative energy. ;)

Hydrogen isn't even in the conversation for regular consumer transportation, for niche markets like transportation (Semi-Trucks perhaps) or backup
power systems. A mini fusion reactor would be amazing, doubt I'd see that in my life time either though. Still 20 years away from a full scale plant being constructured
at least. Hah
 

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I have a long relationship with a Ford Truck only dealership. Because of their experience with alternate fueled vehicles they decided to sign up for EVs. They received a pre-release example of a Ford Mustang Mach-E. If it has flared fenders it is a truck so that's how that works. Also an F-150 EV with 563HP is on the horizon. I got a call from the owner asking if I would like to try out the Mustang.

I spent an afternoon with it in February. It never got above 5°F that day. It is supposed to have a 275 mile range. I got in the car and noted the battery was fully charged yet showed only 187 miles range. When my son was taking a turn at the wheel I found a screen that showed where the energy was going. A full 40% of it was to heat the cabin to 66°. Another 4% to drivetrain. I assume keeping the battery warm. So, yes cold weather has a big effect. Most if not all of these EVs including the Leaf have hybrid climate control systems. They use a heat pump for efficiency. When the temps get very low the heater switches to an electrical resistance system. I'm not sure at what point that kicks in but I'm sure it was active at 5°F. So yes very cold weather affects range. I don't believe cold affects it when it is idle in your garage. The Tesla for example, prefers to be always plugged in. You can schedule your departure time and it will condition the battery and warm the cabin using the charger and not affecting the battery range for that process.

That Mustang was an impressive first attempt for Ford but I took a pass. It rode like a truck. Because it is a truck. Also the front suspension was thumpy/noisy on rough roads. I could have got the employee discount (they could finagle that) and the $7500 tax credit to make it cheaper than the Tesla but again, I would have to be blown away to justify that money considering my current driving habits.

That Tesla model Y that my son bought 10 days later just puts that Mustang to shame however. Like something out of science fiction. And the seats! I wound up with the Leaf because I could not justify $50K for something I might drive 8K miles per year. With discounts, incentives and tax breaks I got the Leaf for little more than half the amount. Also like you, I'm not totally comfortable with Tesla as a company. I prefer a long time established manufacturer with a large dealer service network among other things. His purchase experience was good though. All online. Negotiated the purchase, trade and financing all in 30 minutes. Since Tesla cannot yet sell in Wisconsin (franchise laws) he had to drive the 70 miles to Highland Park, IL to pick it up. However, there is a service center less than 15 miles from his home.
Aye the Leaf has come with a Heat Pump up here for a while (thankfully) it sadly doesn't have an active cooling system anywhere which also causes wear on the battery
especially during high speed charging the new Ariya design seems to address this.

I'm not sure about the Mache-E's heating system using that much power makes me think it may have a resistive heater instead of a heat pump. A garage
really wouldn't be too bad (mines heated as well) but outside with no protection from the elements for extended periods is when it will start ticking down even
while the car isn't running.

I agree though in terms of EV execution no one seems close to Tesla at the moment, they appear to be a good two generations ahead of
everything else on the market at the moment.
 

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...I'm not sure about the Mache-E's heating system using that much power makes me think it may have a resistive heater instead of a heat pump....
In my comment I mentioned that the day I drove the Mustang the temp never got above 5°F. I'm sure it has a hybrid climate control system like most EVs. Like the Leaf also. At those temps a heat pump will not work. I'm sure a resistance type heater kicks in last some point. Just not sure at what temperature.

Maybe someone here in a moderate climate and has a heat pump system for their home can chime in and say what is the lower limit of those things.

I also pointed out that the Leaf is not well suited for road trips that would require frequent fast charging. Because of the lack of thermal management. Thermal management does come at a cost in energy. I think Nissan was going for low cost and high efficiency. It is ideally suited for its role as a commuter and grocery getter however. Not a coast to coast road trip. However, at an MSRP nearly rivaling the Tesla model 3 so much for the low cost. At least they are offering big discounts and rebates and do still qualify for the $7500 tax credit (unlike Tesla) so that makes the real price much lower.
 

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Newport, Oregon
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In my comment I mentioned that the day I drove the Mustang the temp never got above 5°F. I'm sure it has a hybrid climate control system like most EVs. Like the Leaf also. At those temps a heat pump will not work. I'm sure a resistance type heater kicks in last some point. Just not sure at what temperature.

Maybe someone here in a moderate climate and has a heat pump system for their home can chime in and say what is the lower limit of those things.

I also pointed out that the Leaf is not well suited for road trips that would require frequent fast charging. Because of the lack of thermal management. Thermal management does come at a cost in energy. I think Nissan was going for low cost and high efficiency. It is ideally suited for its role as a commuter and grocery getter however. Not a coast to coast road trip. However, at an MSRP nearly rivaling the Tesla model 3 so much for the low cost. At least they are offering big discounts and rebates and do still qualify for the $7500 tax credit (unlike Tesla) so that makes the real price much lower.
Heat pumps don't work at 5°F. The best heat pump manufacturers that make models with extra low temperature capability can work down to about -13°F but most start losing efficiency at about 40°F. Most will switch to a home's alternate heating system at 32°F.
 

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Heat pumps don't work at 5°F. The best heat pump manufacturers that make models with extra low temperature capability can work down to about -13°F but most start losing efficiency at about 40°F. Most will switch to a home's alternate heating system at 32°F.
Thanks!
 

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Newport, Oregon
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I'm in heat pump heaven here on the coast. Don't have one though.
Why not? What do you use for heat and A/C. Do you have A/C?

I'm a little familiar with your climate. I was in Portland once in very early March years ago. I remarked to my hosts that I was surprised at how green the grass was already. They told me "Oh, it is green year 'round".
 

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My problem is back hair.
I remember when my chest hair had just started coming in.

I remember when it was all black.

No, I struggle to find the black ones.

Down south it is a different story. All black. What gives?
 

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Newport, Oregon
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Why not? What do you use for heat and A/C. Do you have A/C?

I'm a little familiar with your climate. I was in Portland once in very early March years ago. I remarked to my hosts that I was surprised at how green the grass was already. They told me "Oh, it is green year 'round".
A/C? LOL! Virtually no one here has an A/C system. A/C here is opening a few windows. It doesn't get hot enough often enough to warrant A/C.

This house was built in 1960. 4 split-levels covering 4,000 sq. ft. Radiant heat in the ceilings of the top two floors and radiant floor heat in the bottom two floors. All the rooms have their own thermostat. I changed them all out to get tighter dead bands than the original thermostats. 14 thermostats! I also had to change out all the electrical wall outlets to three-prong sockets from two (no grounding in those days). Probably around 30-40 outlets to rewire for ground.

Retrofitting this house with a heat pump based, central heating system would probably cost around $40K to $50K. No payback.
 
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Newport, Oregon
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I remember when my chest hair had just started coming in.

I remember when it was all black.

No, I struggle to find the black ones.

Down south it is a different story. All black. What gives?
Just give it some time. It takes a little longer down south.
 
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2018 Q50 Red Sport 400 AWD
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A/C? LOL! Virtually no one here has an A/C system. A/C here is opening a few windows. It doesn't get hot enough often enough to warrant A/C.
What about humidity? Don't you get tired of body parts sticking to one another?
 

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What about humidity? Don't you get tired of body parts sticking to one another?
It's currently 60°F here and 95% humidity. No sticky body parts...just rain.
 

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It's currently 60°F here and 95% humidity. No sticky body parts...just rain.
That sounds perfect. No sarcasm. Cloudy too, I hope?
 
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