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Good luck. I'll be following this for sure.

Sent from my SM-N950U using Tapatalk
 

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What state are you in?

It doesn't matter if the service manager can't duplicate it. If anyone with technical knowledge at the dealer verified it, they should keep the car until it's fixed. If they're just saying that they need more days, then no big deal. I presume you're in a loaner, correct?
 

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Can you explain the last sentence? The AFR is richer at WOT than at part throttle/idle.
The car is using far more fuel and air yes.

But at lower RPM's particularly at idle/low rpms where there is no moving air to pull heat away from
the engine it starts to get hot, this is made even worse by the fact modern cars use such small turbos
and thus are frequently hitting peak boost at lower RPMS and the Cylinder pressure and temperatures get
very high at lower speeds which leads to knock.

So in order to avoid knock and cool the engine manufactures inject more fuel into the cylinders to to compensate.
Thus leading to a very rich fuel mixture at lower RPMs.. It's one of the main reasons why we see very
little real world efficiency gains with these smaller performance turbo engines.

Now whether this holds true for older NA motors I'm not sure, but if I got something wrong there
feel free to correct me.
 

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Discussion Starter #24
What state are you in?

It doesn't matter if the service manager can't duplicate it. If anyone with technical knowledge at the dealer verified it, they should keep the car until it's fixed. If they're just saying that they need more days, then no big deal. I presume you're in a loaner, correct?
yes I have a loaner
 

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You need to get your self a lemon law attorney. It won't cost you anything because nissan ends up paying their fees in the end. I'm in the same situation right now and I could have got a buy back or kept my car after it's fixed and then get a check for the time I didn't have my car (monthly payments made while car was in the shop) and also a check for having to deal with the whole process.
 

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The car is using far more fuel and air yes.

But at lower RPM's particularly at idle/low rpms where there is no moving air to pull heat away from
the engine it starts to get hot, this is made even worse by the fact modern cars use such small turbos
and thus are frequently hitting peak boost at lower RPMS and the Cylinder pressure and temperatures get
very high at lower speeds which leads to knock.

So in order to avoid knock and cool the engine manufactures inject more fuel into the cylinders to to compensate.
Thus leading to a very rich fuel mixture at lower RPMs.. It's one of the main reasons why we see very
little real world efficiency gains with these smaller performance turbo engines.

Now whether this holds true for older NA motors I'm not sure, but if I got something wrong there
feel free to correct me.
That is not how the VR30DDTT works. They target stoich everywhere except WOT and decel. And tip in WOT targets much leaner than stoich to assist in spool up. Also, if you log coolant temps, they are HOTTER at WOT, not cooler as combustion pressures are much higher creating more heat in the motor.
 

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Not to mention that the EPA would have a sh!t fit if manufacturers just made an overly rich mixture under certain conditions to try to effect something that's easily controlled elsewhere.
 

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That is not how the VR30DDTT works. They target stoich everywhere except WOT and decel. And tip in WOT targets much leaner than stoich to assist in spool up. Also, if you log coolant temps, they are HOTTER at WOT, not cooler as combustion pressures are much higher creating more heat in the motor.
Stoich???

To be clear I wasn't saying the engine would be cooler at WOT, naturally the engine is at higher RPMS at WOT so it would produce more heat which I pointed out when I first mentioned the Italian tune up. The entire point is to get the engine hotter so it has a chance to break up carbon deposits.

I was however pointing out that there is far less air-flow at lower speeds so in order to help control engine temperatures, the radiator fans
can only pull so much heat away from the engine at low speeds, so to augment this manufactures can inject additional fuel to help cool the engine.

Not to mention that the EPA would have a sh!t fit if manufacturers just made an overly rich mixture under certain conditions to try to effect something that's easily controlled elsewhere.
How so? A cars that runs richer will be less efficient and show up during standard testing, if manufactures
were actively trying to hide that fact during EPA testing then for sure they'd be in deep sh!t.

How would you cool the engine easily elsewhere without increasing manufacturing costs
or the MSRP? Remember even a $50 increase can add up to tens of millions over the
life-cycle of a car.

By running slightly richer during low-speed operations they are effectively passing that cost over
to the consumer without making any changes on the production line.
 

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Stoich???

To be clear I wasn't saying the engine would be cooler at WOT, naturally the engine is at higher RPMS at WOT so it would produce more heat which I pointed out when I first mentioned the Italian tune up. The entire point is to get the engine hotter so it has a chance to break up carbon deposits.

I was however pointing out that there is far less air-flow at lower speeds so in order to help control engine temperatures, the radiator fans
can only pull so much heat away from the engine at low speeds, so to augment this manufactures can inject additional fuel to help cool the engine.



How so? A cars that runs richer will be less efficient and show up during standard testing, if manufactures
were actively trying to hide that fact during EPA testing then for sure they'd be in deep sh!t.

How would you cool the engine easily elsewhere without increasing manufacturing costs
or the MSRP? Remember even a $50 increase can add up to tens of millions over the
life-cycle of a car.

By running slightly richer during low-speed operations they are effectively passing that cost over
to the consumer without making any changes on the production line.
Stoichiometric...aka 14.63 or 14.2 for E10. You are also not taking into account ignition timing which also impacts coolant temps via EGT's. Check out a log of a VR30DDTT and the timing at idle will make your head hurt lol. No timing at idle and all the timing and cruise to increase efficiency.
 

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Stoich???



To be clear I wasn't saying the engine would be cooler at WOT, naturally the engine is at higher RPMS at WOT so it would produce more heat which I pointed out when I first mentioned the Italian tune up. The entire point is to get the engine hotter so it has a chance to break up carbon deposits.



I was however pointing out that there is far less air-flow at lower speeds so in order to help control engine temperatures, the radiator fans

can only pull so much heat away from the engine at low speeds, so to augment this manufactures can inject additional fuel to help cool the engine.




.

He meant stoichiometric. I guess stoich is quicker to type lol.

So yes, on vr30 the AFR is on or around stoichiometric ratio and then gets richer as you do WOT. As rich as 10.x:1. This is on stock map and on the 400hp (RS). I haven’t seen the 300hp but i’m sure it’d be close, if not the same.
 

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Stoichiometric...aka 14.63 or 14.2 for E10. You are also not taking into account ignition timing which also impacts coolant temps via EGT's. Check out a log of a VR30DDTT and the timing at idle will make your head hurt lol. No timing at idle and all the timing and cruise to increase efficiency.
Ah most effective mixture to burn fuel gotcha. That is very true I haven't considered ignition timings, should post/link a log for me so I can take a peek
don't actually have a VR30DETT to do my own logging on. XD

I assume the engine pulls timings as the RPMS increase to prevent knock?
 

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He meant stoichiometric. I guess stoich is quicker to type lol.

So yes, on vr30 the AFR is on or around stoichiometric ratio and then gets richer as you do WOT. As rich as 10.x:1. This is on stock map and on the 400hp (RS). I haven’t seen the 300hp but i’m sure it’d be close, if not the same.
I could have said lambda but then most everyone wouldn't have a clue :nerd:

Ah most effective mixture to burn fuel gotcha. That is very true I haven't considered ignition timings, should post/link a log for me so I can take a peek
don't actually have a VR30DETT to do my own logging on. XD

I assume the engine pulls timings as the RPMS increase to prevent knock?
Timing is typically held high on tip in to assist with spooling then drops quickly and then slowly increases towards redline. Running any kind of decent boost and the timing is usually in the single digits most of the pull lol.
 

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Discussion Starter #34
Well, this has now gotten absurd.

I can honestly say that Nissan/Infiniti has the WORST customer service I have ever experience.

Their arbitrator immediately went on the offensive today and started bullying me, demanding I wait until I "fly an engineer out" to look at the car. I said when will that be, and all she could say was "well I sent him an email". Ok...

Then she tried to say they've only ever replaced one thing and its no big deal anyways (total lie)and that she "knows the law"

I said "but you're not a lawyer, right?" to which she angrily agreed.

I pointed out that the car has been down for 28 days, and under my States law, at day 30, all bets are off anyways, it is automatically a lemon and I have the right of replacement. I also pointed out that repairs have not even started yet on the car, and the engineer is only for one of the multiple repeat issues anyways.

At this point, she literally started yelling at me "don't you quote the law to me!!" and I said "uh...look I'm just reading what's here from my State..." then she literally shouting again "I'M NOT GOING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE LAW, BUT I MAKE THE DECISION AND I AM FORCING NISSANS RIGHT TO INSPECT THE VEHICLE!!! THE END!". So basically she is shouting only the part of the law that benefits them, even tho there is no possibility they win this.

So I am immensely disappointed in Nissan. Their CEO is in prison where he belongs, their brand is circling the drain, and they seem desperate for money.

Nissan/Infiniti wouldn't know "luxury" if it fell from the sky and hit their foot, they aren't luxurious, they aren't even decent people!!

/end of my rant. I probably won't update this thread anymore, I'm done with this sorry ass excuse of a company. Cheers.
 

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Well, this has now gotten absurd.

I can honestly say that Nissan/Infiniti has the WORST customer service I have ever experience.

Their arbitrator immediately went on the offensive today and started bullying me, demanding I wait until I "fly an engineer out" to look at the car. I said when will that be, and all she could say was "well I sent him an email". Ok...

Then she tried to say they've only ever replaced one thing and its no big deal anyways (total lie)and that she "knows the law"

I said "but you're not a lawyer, right?" to which she angrily agreed.

I pointed out that the car has been down for 28 days, and under my States law, at day 30, all bets are off anyways, it is automatically a lemon and I have the right of replacement. I also pointed out that repairs have not even started yet on the car, and the engineer is only for one of the multiple repeat issues anyways.

At this point, she literally started yelling at me "don't you quote the law to me!!" and I said "uh...look I'm just reading what's here from my State..." then she literally shouting again "I'M NOT GOING TO TALK TO YOU ABOUT THE LAW, BUT I MAKE THE DECISION AND I AM FORCING NISSANS RIGHT TO INSPECT THE VEHICLE!!! THE END!". So basically she is shouting only the part of the law that benefits them, even tho there is no possibility they win this.

So I am immensely disappointed in Nissan. Their CEO is in prison where he belongs, their brand is circling the drain, and they seem desperate for money.

Nissan/Infiniti wouldn't know "luxury" if it fell from the sky and hit their foot, they aren't luxurious, they aren't even decent people!!

/end of my rant. I probably won't update this thread anymore, I'm done with this sorry ass excuse of a company. Cheers.
I'd love to hear how this ends, and what car you get into next.
 

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I could have said lambda but then most everyone wouldn't have a clue :nerd:


Timing is typically held high on tip in to assist with spooling then drops quickly and then slowly increases towards redline. Running any kind of decent boost and the timing is usually in the single digits most of the pull lol.
Hah that would have made me really confused, Lambda is typically used in a lot of things like calculating Radioactive decay, determining what should be stored
In working memory for a computer... And also the name of a an area 51 like facility in the video game Half-Life.

Didn't know it could be used in cars as well. lol
 

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Hah that would have made me really confused, Lambda is typically used in a lot of things like calculating Radioactive decay, determining what should be stored
In working memory for a computer... And also the name of a an area 51 like facility in the video game Half-Life.

Didn't know it could be used in cars as well. lol

I used to have a dog named Lambda
 

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Hah that would have made me really confused, Lambda is typically used in a lot of things like calculating Radioactive decay, determining what should be stored
In working memory for a computer... And also the name of a an area 51 like facility in the video game Half-Life.

Didn't know it could be used in cars as well. lol
lambda is the great equalizer for all fuels/octane/etc. a Lambda of 1 is stoichometric for all fuel types, less than 1 is richer, greater than 1 is leaner. Inverse, used by GM and others is called the equivalence ratio.

@helterstupid sorry to hear man, keep up the good fight!
 

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