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2018 Q50 Red Sport 400 AWD
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yes, you can. add to that using a fram ultra XP7317 filter and whatever flavor of synthetic oil makes you happy, then change it every 5,000 miles. pull the dipstick every few fill ups or so and check oil level. youll be good to go.
I used to use Fram filter up until my first Subaru in 1998 and have been OEM ever since. Too much filter shaming on car forums for me to ever try them again.
 

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BITOG is really weird in that theres a good history of oil filter progression over time. when you stopped using them, i would have agreed with you 100%. ive witnessed a teardown of a 340 Mopar street/strip engine that failed specifically due to the fram filter media failing, with chunks getting lodged in the oil pump and bearings. but, times change.

now, fram ultra filters are pretty much the best value for the money anywhere. they also filter better than nearly any other filter, regardless of price. other brands that have been stalwarts of consistency are no longer a go to. all that being said, im still confident that any decent name brand filter will work just fine and all brands have issues eventually.

fram's ultra xp filter is currently the king of the hill.

The efficiency of the FRAM Ultra is 99% @ 20um and it has been verified using the ISO 4548-12 and SAE HS806 tests. The efficiency of the WIX XP is 50% @20um and this has been stated multiple times by WIX themselves.
Mobil1 filters claim 99% @ 30um. royal purple filters claim 99% @ 25um. Amsoil claim 99% @ 20um.

post from 2020 for reference
A lot has changed in 10 years. Purolator who was once the cream of the crop has experienced lots of tears in the media and issues with the ADBV. They also make Motorcraft filters and the FL-820s has been riddled with tears in the media. Mann+Hummel bought Purolator and WIX and has done nothing to improve the quality issues with Purolator. One can only hope the Purolator issues do not bleed over into WIX, now that M+H owns both of them. FRAM has gone from a lower brand to having the best filter for the price point in the FRAM Ultra. Lots of things have changed...
again, using any name brand of synthetic oil you like thats the proper weight and whatever synthetic filter that tickles the pickle along with a 5,000mile OCI will keep the engine clean and healthy. also, check the oil level every once in a while.

if you want to use better items, fram ultra filters are about the bet you can get as a consumer and mobil1 EP, amsoil ss, pennzoil ultra platinum, and valvoline ME (discontinued but kind of available) are brands that provide slight but consistently better UOA numbers vs other oils. theyre all just fine, those oils are....just slightly better. over time, this makes a difference.
 

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well, off the top of my head, you can see royal purple's color. you can also see the redline uses reds, and shaeffers oil is kinda greenish blue.

the initial post is gone from the internet forever, even the wayback machine cant retrieve it, but the bitog archive has some of it.
That explains why no listing in the MSDS documents. As a non-functional additive with no toxicity, they don't have to list it in the MSDS.
 

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if you want to use better items, fram ultra filters are about the bet you can get as a consumer and mobil1 EP, amsoil ss, pennzoil ultra platinum, and valvoline ME (discontinued but kind of available) are brands that provide slight but consistently better UOA numbers vs other oils. theyre all just fine, those oils are....just slightly better. over time, this makes a difference.
Aye Mobil 1 has almost exclusively been my go-to for filters never had a problem, I've tried Fram a few times now (current filter is a Fram) but
actually getting some very slight weeping from around the filter, they look a lot better than past models but its the
second time this has happened with them so probably won't buy another from them.

Quality control just doesn't appear to be where other brands are.
 

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Been changing every 5K with Pennzoil Ultra like clock work. Cheap at Walmart and Amazon. May try the new Valvoline next time. Really don't expect to see any change in results. As was stated, any high quality oil will do just fine and too many folks way over think this topic!
 
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As was stated, any high quality oil will do just fine and too many folks way over think this topic!
Agree with this.

I don't see any reason to push one high quality oil over another high quality oil. If someone is using a high quality oil and changing at 5k (or there abouts), the engine is being well cared for.
 

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2018 Q50 Red Sport 400 AWD
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Been changing every 5K with Pennzoil Ultra like clock work. Cheap at Walmart and Amazon. May try the new Valvoline next time. Really don't expect to see any change in results. As was stated, any high quality oil will do just fine and too many folks way over think this topic!
I typically have been shopping on price for brand name product and looking only at API service - SN Plus did catch me by surprise, but since we are now on SP it is a moot point.
 

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Discussion Starter · #28 ·
I happened to see a tech discussion with a Valvoline Technology Manager, where he talks about our favorite subject - oil viscosity. In addition, this Technology Manager goes over Valvoline's latest offering - Extended Protection:


I started the clip at the Extended Protection discussion, but be sure to watch to the entire video. It's a fascinating discussion, although it does concentrate somewhat on the rotary engine and VR-1 racing oil.

My take-away is that while you want to be thin enough for cold starts, and to be able carry heat away as fast as possible with a thinner viscosity, you also want a thicker viscosity for high-speed rotating parts to maintain separation of the metal parts in the hydro-dynamic regime (yes, I was taking notes).

So when we turn up the boost on our VR30s, the tunes typically generate more low-end to mid-range torque, which is great for us as drivers, but the higher torque puts additional load on the rod end and crankshaft (plain) bearings. It make sense to me that going to a thicker oil such as 5W30 or 5W40 would benefit these plain bearings maintaining proper spacing under the increased load, rather than a thinner oil that could result in a lower clearances or worse, spun bearings/rod knock.

@xBlitzkriegx @Ddnspider
 

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i would love to sit down with you in person with a white board to explain how a thicker oil isnt going to provide anymore protection in an engine that was designed with a thinner weight oil in the first place. ive explained this before that a thinner weight oil does not mean less protection just because more power is being made, almost regardless of rpm. if the engine was designed with tighter clearances, a thicker oil will not provide anymore protection during normal temp ranges. it will cause higher oil pressures, higher temps, and less protection overall until it gets sufficiently hot enough to operate at in a range where 0w20 would not be suitable. the ONLY TIME THAT WOULD EVER EVEN BE REMOTELY TRUE is if the oil were getting too hot, allowing the viscosity to drop too far, and thats not happening on a street or strip driven VR30. very potentially a road course VR30 though. i found it surprising that the guy didnt touch on the fact that thinner oils with tighter clearances actually spread the load across theh bearing BETTER than a thicker oil with bigger clearances.

as oil really heats up, a 30 weight and a 20 weight at VERY close to the same viscosity. close enough so that if engine damage occurred with a 20w, it would very likely also occur with a 30w oil too. a 30w oil has the same viscosity as a 20w oil, just at different temperature ranges. im pretty sure ive stated the temp difference here before but i think its around 30-40F delta. ie, 30w at 270 degrees is like a 20w at 240F. neither temps are something a street or strip driven VR30 would ever see anyways. you would absolutely step up to a thicker oil for a track driven VR30 because the temp would exceed a 20w oil's thermal viscosity threshold for protection if the oil cooler could not keep up. btw, running a thicker oil than is needed puts extra load on the engine and actually heats the oil up, though it wont be much of an issue on a street driven car.

stop being afraid of numbers on a bottle when you dont know or understand the engineering that went in to the engine and oil. the engine isnt going to fly out from under the car because it makes 500wtq and 2500rpm. the oil pump is already making full pressure with 0w20 at that rpm anyways. if dumping oil in to your car that says 30w instead of 20w makes you feel safe, then do so. its not going to do any damage. heat is the enemy, just like the man said two seconds in to the video. keep the 0w20 under 240F and everything will be just fine.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
if dumping oil in to your car that says 30w instead of 20w makes you feel safe, then do so. its not going to do any damage. heat is the enemy, just like the man said two seconds in to the video. keep the 0w20 under 240F and everything will be just fine.
As always, thanks for the input.

Not a question of feeing safe, but when I see my JB4 and then Ecutek-tuned VR30 basically shear-down a 5W30 oil to its lowest cSt range in the UOA at the end of a 5k mile OCI, due to Direct Injection and its trait of fuel diluting the oil, my concern is the loss of viscosity towards the end of the OCI, especially starting with a thin oil like 0W20,

In a perfect world, I'd be more than happy to use 0W20 all day long and reap the benefits of better fuel economy, less internal friction, etc., but I base my conclusions on the UOA data, not because I'm wedded to the thicker oil argument.

Therefore, my assumption is to use a slightly higher viscosity oil, i.e., 5W30 in this case, which will have a higher initial viscosity when it's new and undiluted, and when it reaches the end of the 5k OCI, it will have sheared-down to the viscosity of a 0W20, at least that how my last few oil changes have trended.

While I'm no petroleum engineer, I can certainly analyze a data trend. The Modern Engine (ME) 5W30 starts out at a KV100(cSt) of 10.2 cSt, while the ME 0W20 starts out at 8.1 cSt. At my last OCI of 4,255 miles, Blackstone measured the KV100 @ 8.03 cSt, which is what new 0W20 is spec'd. Also, the wear metals - FE, Cu, & Al, have been trending low and consistent, so either my assumptions are correct, or I've just been lucky.
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
Update on an older thread...

Found a post on BITOG regarding UOA of Valvoline Extended Protection w/7k mile OCI and heavy trailering w/2013 Silverado 4.8L V8 w/168k miles on the clock:

Valvoline Extended Protection 5w30 7k miles; 4.8L 168k miles

As commented in the thread, Valvoline has lots of Moly in the Extended Protection formulation. Oil held up well.
 

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I find this interesting.
 

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I find this interesting.
And these 2:
.

 

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Assuming this applies the same to cars, mine running stock cooling system has oil temps in range of 180 - 215. Oil on/around the piston then would be 255 - 290. What oil temps are the guys with upgraded cooling seeing?

Here is MotorTrends take on it...

 

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First link is full of nothing burger and a blurb that sounds scary. Cylinder wall temps are higher than that and oil sees comparatively higher temps for longer periods of time (still miniscule) without problem.

Second link has aircraft related info that isn't relevant to the automotive world. They're too far apart in application. Aircraft engines see loads far higher for far longer than automotive engines and more importantly, are stupidly overbuilt for reliability reasons. A Cessna 182 has a 540 cu in flat six that only makes 375hp with a turbo. It's turbo is MASSIVE in comparison and so is the engine. It's going to create far more heat and not dissipate it as well compared to car engines. The general information is still true but not as relevant. Not only that, the information is severely out of date. That's most important to point out mainly due to advances in oil technology, no so much about the advice given.

The the engineering toolbox link, change the value two decimal points to the right on the Y axis to convert to centistokes. That graph is pretty far zoomed in and it's also missing the last 50°C which would put things in far better perspective. It looks like 20w is super thin here but the reality is that it's mainly thinner at lower temps. As you go above 100°C, the 20w and 30w lines start to converge rather rapidly.

Temps matter more than viscosity. Notice that a 20w is as thick as a 30w oil at 90°C (194°F). Way up at 150°C(302°F), 20w oils tend to be around 2.7-3.0 centistokes and 30w oils tend to 3.0-3.5. (HTHS is measured in millipascals but conversion to centistokes is a 1:1 ratio). This is why so many people look stupid when they think 20w oil is "too thin" compared to 30w oil. It actually MIGHT be too thin, but without temperature as context you can't make a good argument. It might be too thin at 275°F but not at 200°F because it has the same viscosity as a 30w oil does when it's at 212°F. Oil temp control is far more important.
 
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Discussion Starter · #36 ·
Continuing my shameless plug of Valvoline, they are offering a rebate on the purchase of one (1) 5-qt jug through January 8, 2023:

Product Font Screenshot Technology Brand
 
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