I would agree that the VQ is more reliable than the VR30 simply that it's NA and also doesn't have to deal with carbon build up from direct injection and also sometimes the VR30 can have belt issues.


Sure the VQ is more reliable but do I think it's the better engine?


No, I drove to Virginia from TN and got 27-29 MPG and it also has great tuning potential right out the box all we have to do is just exhaust and a tune and we're already at red sport power levels.

The low end torque also makes it a great daily driver and also a fun one.

 

I've owned both. Only 70k on my 3.7 but seemed bulletproof. I have 20K miles on my VR30 tuned, with no issues so far. No oil consumption at all, that I can measure.

Will it last? That's the $20,000 question. I don't consider a serpentine belt failure "catastrophic". I have heard of only 2 engine replacements. MWH recently, who ran a flex fuel E85 system, with full bolt ons, and a tune. No clue how he got it covered, but he did return it to "stock" soooooo. No clue on that. Apparently it was excessive oil consumption.

The other was one forum member. "Sludge in oil" or some other such crap. With issues regarding oil changes not done at Infiniti..
That's only 2 I know of. If this was a turbocharged 3.7 would we see similar results? (Oh baby would I love one BTW!)
I'd like to see if there are any high mile VR's out there. I bet a few with 80K.

If I get 100K with 2 - 3 belt changes I'll be happy. I'm hoping 150K ish b4 I go all electric, or a Buick lol. I'll be 75 by then. Honestly, a 3.0 V6 that makes 430ish wheel HP and 450ish torque that gets over 20 mpg the way I drive is close to mind blowing.

Still to soon to tell if the VR has the same longevity as the VQ. (other than belt issues)

 

Seems like an unfair comparison. A 30 year old platform to a brand new one. All platforms have some bugs to work out in the early years.

 

I agree with this. Apples to oranges.

Theoretically, generally speaking, a normally aspirated V6 is gonna have less issues than a Q50 RS fed by two spinners. Likewise, a Veyron is gonna have more issues than an RS 400. Ha

I've been trolling G37s, for reasons the OP stated, looking for a daily to keep 'useless miles' off the Q. If i always had 'extra hundreds falling out of my pockets walking down the street', I'd go buy a brand new Honda Civic sport with an inline 4, no turbs...not even an Acura. (We have both in the family.) Again, though...apples to oranges.

 

A lot of people own q50's in my area, from what I hear from the service advisors and owners is that the turbos leak a lot and they are constantly dealing with issues with that engine. But that's just my limited scope I'm sure overall they are fine. I'm with JohninNH as far as going electric next, I already have solar panels installed producing more power than I use. I'm going with a Tesla or Rivian when this car blows up or my son graduates college, whichever comes first. I'm guessing that will be my son graduating college, which he is starting this fall.

 

A lot of people own q50's in my area, from what I hear from the service advisors and owners is that the turbos leak a lot and they are constantly dealing with issues with that engine. But that's just my limited scope I'm sure overall they are fine.

A couple of points:

The push by manufacturers to 10k mile maintenance intervals does not support long-time drivetrain reliability. Many owners of the 2016+ Q50s and 2017+ Q60s w/VR30DDTT have learned its in our (their) best interest to cut that maintenance interval in-half, or 5k miles, due to fuel dilution issues with direct-injection (DI). As I've mentioned in other threads, while I mod my Q, I check Ifrequently) and maintain the oil level, run an OCC, perform 4-5K oil change intervals (OCIs), and have my oil analyzed (UOA) at every OCI. I follow the same routine with the other car I own, a '15 Audi Allroad w/2.0 TSFI, which also is a turbo w/DI.

Break-in is still an important step, and several methods for breaking-in the engine (and the drivetrain) have been mentioned in this forum. For long-term reliability, the default is to follow the break-in procedure in the owner's manual. I followed it on my '17 Q60, and whether you agree with the parameters or not, the proof is "in the pudding" - my VR30 engine uses very little to no oil between changes. Sure, the oil experiences fuel dilution, but except for one instance in a UOA result, the fuel dilution has been < 2% (a good result for DI) at each OCI.

While the Allroad is FFV, and while others have used E30, E85, etc. in their Q's w/VR30DDTT's, I will not attempt to run these ethanol blends in the search for extra power. While tunes exist for it and the necessary upgrades to the LPFP & HPFP are available, the risk of failure in an engine not designed as a FFV engine is inevitably higher. A few recent examples prove this out.

 

Around the forum and from people that I know who have VR30DDTT variant of the Q50 have had to get there engine replaced. I am beginning to wonder if the VR30 is even as good as the iconic VQ engines. I have 1997 Nissan Maxima SE and it has the VQ30DE engine, the very first variant of the VQ family and it has 379,900 miles on it. Its still the original engine and not once I have ever had a problem with it. I also have VQ35DE in my Murano and my cousins both have the VQ37VHR engine in there G37's and they also never had an issue. Which is why I bought the Infiniti Q50S Hybrid with VQ35HR engine that is also well established with alot of the Nissan 350Z enthusiasts and owners. But when you here about people such as one of our own forum members having to have his Red Sports VR30DDTT engine replaced at only 1500 miles is outrageous and absurd (https://www.infinitiq50.org/forum/q...823-2018-red-sport-only-1500-miles-needed-new-engine-turbos-possible-lemon.html). One of my friends has an Red Sport and a Silver Sport and has had to get his engine replaced on VR30DDTT Silver Sport which is the 300HP power variant.

Now I recently just found out that Nissan in japan only sells the Infinti Q50 Hybrid as the Infiniti Skyline 350GT V37 only in the Hybrid Powertrain and in the 2.0 Turbo. They dont use the VQ37VHR nor do they use the new VR30DDTT engines. Although this probably means nothing one can only make assumptions. What do you guys think. Do you think the VR30 can hold its own in terms of durability and reliability against the VQ engines? Do you think Nissan has lost it's touch a little?

One thing your forgetting is that the VQ37 is an evolution of the VQ35 which was already a major update of the VQ30DE,
and the VQ35 was not problem free.

The early years VQ35 had a leaky O-Ring behind the oil filter, CAM shaft sensor issues, and started consuming a bit of oil after 100K miles,
the HR engines in particular would burn oil very quickly.

As others have said there hasn't been wide-spread failures from what we've seen but this is a totally new engine from Nissan
so the long term reliability is still very much unknown. The aforementioned belt issue is really the only re-occouring
issue we've seen from the VR30 at the moment,

 

^^^ lets not forget the faulty rear timing seals on the VQ's. There are more and more people popping up with this problem on the forums.

I myself have had 6 VQ's.

1- 350Z need a motor at 18k miles burned oil so bad I had to drive with the windows open.

1- G35X Sedan drove till 40k miles no issues at all

3- G37X's two sedans and a couple. Both sedans had zero issues one was a 2011( wifes) 40k miles no issues at all, mine was a 09 drive till 102k miles zero issues an was fully bolted and tuned. 2011 Coupe blew the motor at 16k (Was Super charged- Stillen Kit) Dealer Installed and serviced.

1-Q50 ( current car) almost 62k miles and zero issues, bolted and tuned

 

I had a 2006 G35 and had major oil consumption issues, not only that my transmission failed at 80K. I currently have 30K on my Red Sport and only had to replace my Serpentine belt because it was squeaking. Other than that the car has been flawless. I haven't even had to change the brakes or anything. Just oil changes. The G35 brakes were needing replacing every 15K and the rotors always warped.

 

We must be able to extrapolate an engine's reliability based on 3 year's of availability, forum stories, and some sketchy analysis of what is offered in Japan. Interesting!

The VQ was a great engine, but I wonder if it was perfect in it's first 3 year's of life. I don't think there is enough information to call anything on the VR30.

 

That extrapolation is only really relevant for the first 3 years of the life, sure you could calculate the total number of miles driven by each owner an calculate a MTB but that only really works in a controlled enviroment. But there are too many variables to consider and until people start hitting around 80k miles+ (average ownership of a car) it's tough to say how good the motor is over the life time.

I have a 2010 G37X with 319k miles, no major issues just wear and tear, I recently took in a FX35 with 350k miles and the only issue was interior, customer claims to have had no issues whatsoever with motor. From 1995-2008 the VQ engine was listed as one of wards top ten engines in the world and no other motor can claim that. These are bullet proof motors and as long as Ive been with Infiniti I’ve heard countless stories of how great they were to their owners. I dont see my VR30 lasting as long because of the turbos but I prefer them, easier to mod, much quicker, and very fun to drive. When I buy mine out of lease I plan on getting an extended warranty for sure though!

Aye on my second VQ engine, 1st was an 02 altima VQ35DE and it ran like a clock till I sold her with 140K miles on the odo, my G37 is now at 100K miles and has been problem free
as well.

As for the bit about Wards the mereits of the engine are decided basd on the specifications and performance and doesn't really account for durability.
The fact the VQ won all those awards is just a testament to how ahead of the times Nissan was with it's design and their commitment to update it.

 

Thats why I got a 2018 I figured 3 years was enough to work the manufacturing bugs and outside vendor QC issues under control. It does seem that some vin #'s out of the TSB range had alignment issues as well.
I usually never get a new model year car.
I was on the other forum when I had my G37. Heard a few issues but not like above. Interesting. Hopefully I have many trouble free miles. I have noticed some CV joint noise when at full lock turning. But may have not noticed it when new. I'm keeping close attention to it now. Hopefully it does not get any louder. Seems ok for now though.

 

I’m hearing a sound at full lock also, seems like it’s coming from the rear. Is that also CV joint noise?


JohnInNH — “My G37 IPL........”

 

I have a 2010 G37X with 319k miles, no major issues just wear and tear, I recently took in a FX35 with 350k miles and the only issue was interior, customer claims to have had no issues whatsoever with motor. From 1995-2008 the VQ engine was listed as one of wards top ten engines in the world and no other motor can claim that. These are bullet proof motors and as long as Ive been with Infiniti I’ve heard countless stories of how great they were to their owners. I dont see my VR30 lasting as long because of the turbos but I prefer them, easier to mod, much quicker, and very fun to drive. When I buy mine out of lease I plan on getting an extended warranty for sure though!

 

I taped this to my desk for all of my customers to view

 

I trust it isn't tilted 90 degrees on your desk.

 

The problem, I think, is threefold and not nearly as defined as "VR30 sucks".


First-getting transparency from Nissan. We are not gonna. They are absolutely mired in scandal right now-their CEO, Carlos Ghosen, is in prison on trumped up (?) charges in a coup by his protege Saikawa. But now, Saikawa is under investigation for malfeasance and trying to buy his mansion with Nissan money. Meanwhile, the three top executives of Infiniti all quit. Nissan is trying to move INFINITI corporate office from Hong Kong back to Japan (where they can control any potential investigations). Then, there was the attempted hostile takeover by Renault shareholders in an attempt to find out what Nissan is hiding. The attempt failed, but Nissan's biggest shareholders are staging an internal revolt to get an outsider on a corporate review board to find out what exactly Nissan and Saikawa have been hiding from outsiders. With all that going on, no way in **** is Nissan going to disclose what kind of issues their flagship cars are having that aren't already exposed.


Second-the QA scandal.
It came to light that Nissan had been lying about its mileage and QA certification since the 90's. They were exposed in 2017 and then again in 2018. The problem is that the guy who started the fraud back in the 90's is now VP in the company-so he isn't going anywhere. Since Nissan had been doing this for over 2 decades...it's built into their corporate culture. Nissan also has no outside supervisory board to speak of, so...progress probably has not been made.


Third- Money and cost of warranty campaigns.
Nissan is bleeding money. Their sales have dropped by half and might bet worse as the whole Ghosen-Saikawa drama works through the court system. They also took a hit for over a billion dollars, finally admitting all their CVT transmissions are trash and will need replaced, even those out of warranty. The last thing they are going to do is eat another billion dollar warranty repair program when they are not forced to. Subaru has already hit over 2 billion in warranty write downs and are in deep ****, Nissan is not going to go peacefully to the same grave.


These kind of things are not unique to Nissan though. Japanese companies are notoriously corrupt and secretive, with an absolute disdain for outside regulation or supervision of any sort. Nissan behaving this way is the course of business. Korean companies are the same way. There is just more exposure for Nissan being this way because they are minority shareholder to a French company (with plenty of outside regulation and supervision) who is demanding to know what Nissan is hiding.

 

The problem, I think, is threefold and not nearly as defined as "VR30 sucks".


First-getting transparency from Nissan. We are not gonna. They are absolutely mired in scandal right now-their CEO, Carlos Ghosen, is in prison on trumped up (?) charges in a coup by his protege Saikawa. But now, Saikawa is under investigation for malfeasance and trying to buy his mansion with Nissan money. Meanwhile, the three top executives of Infiniti all quit. Nissan is trying to move INFINITI corporate office from Hong Kong back to Japan (where they can control any potential investigations). Then, there was the attempted hostile takeover by Renault shareholders in an attempt to find out what Nissan is hiding. The attempt failed, but Nissan's biggest shareholders are staging an internal revolt to get an outsider on a corporate review board to find out what exactly Nissan and Saikawa have been hiding from outsiders. With all that going on, no way in **** is Nissan going to disclose what kind of issues their flagship cars are having that aren't already exposed.


Second-the QA scandal.
It came to light that Nissan had been lying about its mileage and QA certification since the 90's. They were exposed in 2017 and then again in 2018. The problem is that the guy who started the fraud back in the 90's is now VP in the company-so he isn't going anywhere. Since Nissan had been doing this for over 2 decades...it's built into their corporate culture. Nissan also has no outside supervisory board to speak of, so...progress probably has not been made.


Third- Money and cost of warranty campaigns.
Nissan is bleeding money. Their sales have dropped by half and might bet worse as the whole Ghosen-Saikawa drama works through the court system. They also took a hit for over a billion dollars, finally admitting all their CVT transmissions are trash and will need replaced, even those out of warranty. The last thing they are going to do is eat another billion dollar warranty repair program when they are not forced to. Subaru has already hit over 2 billion in warranty write downs and are in deep ****, Nissan is not going to go peacefully to the same grave.


These kind of things are not unique to Nissan though. Japanese companies are notoriously corrupt and secretive, with an absolute disdain for outside regulation or supervision of any sort. Nissan behaving this way is the course of business. Korean companies are the same way. There is just more exposure for Nissan being this way because they are minority shareholder to a French company (with plenty of outside regulation and supervision) who is demanding to know what Nissan is hiding.

Ever since corrupt, cost-cutting Carlos Ghosn can to Nissan, Nissan reliability has continuously been takin tanking. Cinbine that with Renault poor record and I would trust a Nissan/infinity at a as all. The original vq engine was bulletproof out of the gate. The VR3.8TT had been bulletproof too. Both engines keep Renault and Ghosns unreliability influence far away. The same can’t be said about the Vr30tt.0TT.

 

I'm at about 60K and have no issues. I wonder if my hybrid system - since it shares the load - takes some stress off the motor. But, my heavy foot probably reapplies the stress so it's a wash. All I can say is the engine is quiet, smooth, and has been trouble free.

 

I just checked my oil at 5K it's still at the top mark. Fully tuned, with 12 log files to Sebastian (0-125ish), and 2 track days (100 or so hard laps) on this oil. 0-20 Valvoline Modern engine oil.
It's going to be interesting to see the Blackstone oil analysis report after I get it.
I hope to change it today. Oil is due in at 2PM today.

 

You run 0-20 on track days?

 

Yes, 5-20 is not available in the modern engine oil. Theoretically 0-20 and 5-20 at temp are both 20w. My VPN #'s are very good. I'll know after I get my latest Blackstone report back.

 

I believe 5-30 was the suggested alternate by Infiniti if you're in a hot climate.....given that you're racing it would seem like a good choice.

 

The VR is handicapped with 0w20 and the "serpentine engine".

I run 5w30 (all year long...coldest temps in winter are high 30s but mostly low 40s) with 5000 mile OCI and plan to replace the belt and tensioner every 10,000 miles (my belt snapped at 17,000 miles and I don't ever want to see it happen again). I prefer to change my oil every 2500 miles as I drive the snot out of the car.

And, this comparison is not a true comparison. It is a comparison of a 3.7 port injected NA motor putting out 330 hp or the 3.5 port injected NA putting out 300 hp VERSUS a 3.0 Direct Injected twin turbo putting out 320+ or 400 hp.

Can't compare.

 

I would use only 0w-40 because it's listed in the owners manual and cause it what the gtr uses. The only reason why they recommend using 0w-20 is because of fuel economy. In Europe they recommend using 5w-40 in my 1997 VQ30DE where here in the states it's 5w-30. But for VR30DDTT 0w-40 will be the best of oils to use.

 

Since this has turned into an oil discussion, if anyone has tried VR1 20w50 (flows like honey) or Mobil1 15w50 in their 3.0, let me know how the motor liked it. That is my oil of choice if it works.

 

Page 10-2 in the Owner's Manual lists Nissan Motor Oil 0W-20 SN as the recommended motor oil. "If that oil is not available, use an equivalent motor oil that matches the above grade and viscosity. For additional information, see "Engine Oil and oil filter recommendation" (Page 10-8).


On page 10-9, the manual states: "The engine oil viscosity or thickness changes with temperature. Because of this, it is important that the engine oil viscosity be selected based on the temperatures at which the vehicle will be operated before the next oil change. Choosing an oil viscosity other than that recommended could cause serious engine damage."

On page 10-10, there is a diagram of a thermometer with the ranges for acceptable oil viscosities based on the anticipated outside temperature range before the next oil change. 0W-30, 0W-40, 5W-30, and 5W-40 are listed as potential oils in addition to 0W-20.

 

Yes, interesting that the thermometer diagram doesn't list 0W-20.

 

I run 0W-20 with an OCI of 5K miles. Average temperatures here vary from the low 40's to the mid 70's, with rare extremes of 25 and 90 degrees.

 

Most of the time it's only in the mid 80's here mid summer, but 60-75 after sunset. Mornings of 62 common. So 0-20 works most of the time. 4 me. My log hits for Seb are done at 68-73 degs. No more than 5K intervals.

 

Those are pretty reasonable ambient temperatures but even so I'd personally recommend anyone doing frequent track days snag an oil cooler and go with a 0w30 oil, if your oil temps start hitting around 260-270F a 0W20 offers
offers barely any protection. Not to mention you the blow-by that likely occurs at those temperatures.

For reference Water at room temperature is about 1.1 - 1.2 mPa•s

Mobil 1 0W-20
SAE Grade 0W-20
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 44.8
Viscosity, @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 8.7
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 2.7

Mobil 1 5W-30
SAE Grade 5W-30
Viscosity, @ 40ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 61.7
Viscosity @ 100ºC, cSt (ASTM D445) 11.0
HTHS Viscosity, mPa•s @ 150ºC (ASTM D4683) 3.1

 

So now we got the fact that 5W30 is acceptable to use in the VR30... and LOL, like I'm going to use conventional 5W30 in this engine??? Nice job Infiniti...

Again, it's not so much the slight temperature range differences over 0W20, but that 5W30 has the higher viscosity (let me call it margin) to tolerate fuel dilution with this DI engine. Depending on your drive cycle, at the end of 5k miles, you could realistically have > 2% fuel dilution in the engine oil (I did in one oil sample), effectively dropping the oil viscosity one grade! Yes, in that one instance, my initial fill of 5W30 became 5W20 at the end of the change interval.

And then some folks run different Ethanol %'s, which I have not idea how mixing in the corn fuel into the oil (via blow-by) would change the viscosity equation at the end of the change interval. I can't imagine it would be better than gasoline.

 

Judging by the smell of the crap in my CC it's catching some fuel. Not much but better than nothing.

 

I can smell some fuel in my oil. At least I did this morning at about 2000 miles.

 

0-20 good to over 100 deg F. So, with highs of only on the worst days mid to high 80's , maybe 95 at the worst, 0-20 is appropriate for me. 60's-85 daily in the summer. I'm good.

 

Again, it's NOT the temp range of the 0W-20 I worry about... it's the amount of fuel dilution and its negative effect on viscosity towards the last half of the oil change interval, 5K in my case (shudders @ a 10k OCI).

Looking back on my Blackstone Analysis history, the worst fuel dilution #'s were the period when I had the JB4 "in the loop". Now I'm running an Ecutek tune, so the fuel dilution has not cracked the 2% mark, however, to be safe rather then sorry, I'm sticking to 5W30.

In fact, if you ask Seb about oil choice, he recommended 5W40 for this engine.

I understand you are trying to get most gas mileage out of your rig, and 0W20 is one of the best multi-vise oils for better fuel mileage, I'm just making you aware of my observations regarding the viscosity changes.

 

I'm changing oil @ 5000 miles using 0W-20. Given my climate, driving habits, and OCI, I think that viscosity is fine for me.